Mateo McMinn Bautista  00:11

How's your day been so far long?

 

Angela Gates  00:14

I want to go home so badly, but, you know, life sucks, so gotta keep going.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  00:19

We gotta persevere. Thank you for your time today, of course.

 

Angela Gates  00:23

Oh, of course. My friend Genesis came and did her and she was, yeah, she was like, Angela, go. It's like, you sold me.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  00:30

Do you talk much about your Latinidad?

 

Angela Gates  00:33

In school, yeah. I came to VCU to find more people, because in Winchester, there's nothing, and nobody's like Panamanian or Puerto Rican. Now it's all Salvadorian. So I was like [ineligible]. Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  00:45

Okay. Well, good afternoon. Thank you for having me. My name is Matteo McMinn Bautista. I'm a student here at VCU Commonwealth University, and I'm interviewing Angela Gates today. Today, here in Richmond, Virginia, the public history lab located at 811, South cathedral Street. Today is 5/21/2024, it is approximately 3:40pm, thank you for having me, well.

 

Angela Gates  01:13

Thank you.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  01:13

Thank you for being a part of this study. So just to kind of begin, first, I'd like to ask some basic questions about you, your family and your background. So if you could just start us off by sharing where your family's from your childhood and how you grew up.

 

Angela Gates  01:27

Okay, so I'm Angela. I was born in San Antonio, Texas. My mom is Panamanian, fully. She immigrated here when she met my dad through the military. My dad's from the US, but his- my grandparents are Puerto Rican and then Irish, so I have a little bit of a mix there. It was.. that was the question?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  01:54

It was just more about like,

 

Angela Gates  01:56

Oh, my childhood.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  01:57

Yeah, your childhood.

 

Angela Gates  01:57

So because my dad doesn't speak Spanish, I had to grow up a little bit in- under the white side more, but my mom spoke to us in Spanish. So technically, I learned Spanish first before I went- I got my English, but I- because my dad didn't speak Spanish with us, we had to learn English at home, but because we were bilingual, we could have conversations with both of them at the same time in two different languages, which is cool.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  02:21

Like Spanglish

 

Angela Gates  02:28

Yeah, basically, yeah. But I went to- I was in Texas for 13 years, and then moved up to Winchester when I was 13, because my dad's family is from here, so that's why we did the big move. And yeah, I went to a bilingual school, which is something that I like to tell people, because that's why I went to school first in Spanish, all Spanish,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  02:56

Ok, and that was before moving to Winchester?

 

Angela Gates  02:58

 Yeah, yeah. So this is in Texas, because the population is so big, so a lot of students, especially in elementary school, if you find these schools, are, like, in within, like, different districts. So technically, I didn't even know this until I got out, but I wasn't in the right like I was in my district. I went to different school, and it was, yeah, there was two classes and two Hispanic, like, fully no English for, like, pre K, kindergarten, first grade, second grade, and then in third grade, at the end, you made the switch to English.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  03:33

That's interesting,

 

Angela Gates  03:35

Yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  03:35

So it's like, it's not ESL,

 

Angela Gates  03:37

No, it's like, it's completely separate.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  03:40

So did you learn English [ineligible] like, with your dad, but like, outside,

 

Angela Gates  03:45

Yes,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  03:45

 kids learn English?

 

Angela Gates  03:46

Yeah, yeah. So, like, there's only two. So, like, out of the pre K class, there was like two only Hispanic, Latino classrooms, and then there was, like, the rest were native English. So it's not like a full school for Hispanics. It's just you have the-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  04:07

So that you can still speak English, interesting.

 

Angela Gates  04:08

Yeah, I didn't, I don't think it's ESL, because a lot of them did know English too.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  04:10

Impressive,

 

Angela Gates  04:11

Yeah. So that was, I love talking about that, because it was so much, it's so different than everybody else.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  04:17

One question not on the list, but my brother did something like that, similar, like that in DC. But it was like, did you learn English or not English, math, like the other sciences, in Spanish?

 

Angela Gates  04:27

Yes, everything was in Spanish,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  04:28

How did that translate into like, you're like later on? Because for some people, it's a struggle learning, you know, in one language and then expecting to know-

 

Angela Gates  04:36

Honestly, I don't think it was like a big problem, just because my dad did speak English. So we had to speak English outside of school. But everything in school is Spanish, math, science, history, everything Spanish.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  04:50

But you didn't get that in Winchester.

 

Angela Gates  04:52

No, I went to middle school in Winchester, but yeah, in Texas, it's only elementary school that gets that. Once you're in a middle schooler, you don't get that.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  05:00

Do you know what type of curriculum it was like, outside of, like, bilingualism,

 

Angela Gates  05:05

I never actually, I wanted to research it, but I just never got to it, ever. Yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  05:11

And then I guess, like, further on with the like, how was that with your childhood like, I guess from Texas to, like, Winchester to where you are now.

 

Angela Gates  05:18

I won't lie, like I hated moving, I loved down there, like all the people I had met, and just having a complete switch from, like all Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans, literally, like the whole area was just like Hispanic, but like, it was majority Mexicans, but like, it was just all Hispanic people. You wouldn't, you couldn't go to the grocery store without seeing someone. Then to completely switch to completely, like, white dominant area is such like a wake up call, especially when you're in middle school and you're going through those formative years where you don't want to get judged and you want to fit in, and it's like, being a person of color, it's kind of hard to do that when, yeah, and it's like, I went to the- not rich, but like the richer district. So it's all the preppy students, all the students with money.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  05:19

Was it a private school?

 

Angela Gates  05:48

No, it was a public school, but it was a lot- the city, inner city of Winchester is a lot of, like, historic building. So, like, people who live there usually have a little more money than the outskirts.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  06:30

Were you, so when you moved to, like from Texas to, to Winchester, was it rural? Like,

 

Angela Gates  06:37

No, well,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  06:38

Like that transition,

 

Angela Gates  06:40

Yeah, it was definitely rural compared to- because in, at least in Texas, it was like millions of people,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  06:46

Yeah you could drive everywhere.

 

Angela Gates  06:47

Yeah and it's like, you have a city like 10 minutes away, and it's like skyscrapers and all that. But yeah, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  06:54

So how was your experience, like, just growing up? I guess in the polar opposite,

 

Angela Gates  06:59

Honestly, I think I rebelled more,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  07:02

In Winchester?

 

Angela Gates  07:02

Yeah, than I did, even though I like, didn't have my, like, middle school years. I just like, didn't have many friends here, and then it was just like, I didn't, like going to school because of, like, the whole fitting in thing. And like, in that school was like, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  07:19

Did you have like, other Latinos amongst your community, or is it just?

 

Angela Gates  07:22

See, that was the thing in my school, like in that high school, at least, it was a lot of Hispanics, because a lot of, like the Salvadorans that lived there would go to school there more than, like the county schools. So I mean, it was just like you had a very polar opposites there too, because it was like ESL students, and then your students who were, like, trying to fit in with the rich white people and, like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  07:46

So, it was pretty preppy.

 

Angela Gates  07:47

Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah. We had a lot of bear Bradley, the Lily Pulitzer, like, that's what everybody would wear, the bright neon dresses that you-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  07:57

Wow

 

Angela Gates  07:58

 Yeah, it was-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  08:00

You're, you're kind of close to the West Virginia border right?

 

Angela Gates  08:03

 Yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  08:03

 Relatively.

 

Angela Gates  08:04

Sadly yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  08:06

Yeah, interesting. And then, so then, like, how did that affect you growing up? Let's say, like, did you how did you reconcile with your latinidad? Thats not a question but,  Yeah,

 

Angela Gates  08:15

No, no, you're fine. I lost it. I completely lost it. After middle school, I, like, stop speaking Spanish. I didn't watch a lot of TV shows in Spanish. Like, my mom tried to, like, I had a very like, weird- that my dad, because he didn't speak English, was very like,  He hated, I hate saying this, but he's a racist. So, like, he wouldn't allow, like, once we got older, it was like, all English. You can't speak Spanish. And he would try to, like, do that, but my mom wouldn't. She would talk to us in Spanish, but we would speak to her in English. And then it's like, we didn't have many Hispanic friends around. Our neighbors weren't Hispanic, so it was, like, hard to even go out and, like, see that. And again, I didn't want to be in school, so I didn't make the effort to find people. So, like, I didn't have that outside of school either. It was just a lot. Like, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  09:11

Well thank you for talking so candidly about it. But like,

 

Angela Gates  09:14

Oh yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  09:14

How did that- I guess- like, I don't want to- did you want to poke at your father or not,

 

Angela Gates  09:18

Oh no no that's fine.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  09:20

I'm also like, half white and half Latino. So I guess do you reconcile with your whiteness?

 

Angela Gates  09:26

No.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  09:27

Alright.  I was gonna ask you, is your father, like, dark skinned?

 

Angela Gates  09:28

Growing up, I did, after I came to college, high school, I dropped- I don't even like saying it anymore. I hate saying it because I'm like, I'm, please don't, don't think I'm like them. I just, I don't like being associated with them sometimes, because growing up, I didn't see the difference between them, especially because my dad's family, because they're Irish, they're mainly white, like I'm- my brother and I are the only like, like we look Hispanic. No, he has like, green eyes. Its like, he's white comp- like, white complexion. He looks Italian more than he does Hispanic

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:06

Do you know your father's history of how Irish and Puerto Rican?

 

Angela Gates  10:09

It's half and half straight down the middle, because my grandpa is Irish, completely my grandma's Puerto Rican. So it's like, right down the middle, yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:17

Like, do they go to the Irish part where are they on the island? Or were they like on mainland USA?

 

Speaker 1  10:18

I think they were both on mainland USA, because my grandma grew up in New York, so I think when she was younger, she came down to New York.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:32

But have you actually visited Puerto Rico?

 

Angela Gates  10:34

One time.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:35

Okay,

 

Angela Gates  10:36

Again, because that side is so white dominated they don't like to talk about- like they don't talk- none of my cousins talk spanish- speak Spanish. My aunts and uncles don't, they grew up with the even worse- my grandpa was even more against speaking Spanish. So none of them learned it.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:52

Interesting, and your Panamanian side, were you able to visit like Panama?

 

Angela Gates  10:55

Oh, yeah. When we were in Texas, we would go. I've been traveling there since I was a baby, because my mom's whole family's on there. She has nobody here, and of the two, oh my gosh, Pamela. Pamela, I'm not gonna lie, when I was younger, we didn't- Once we moved to we didn't go back as much. But because I got out of, like, that white dominant area, came to VCU, I was like, "Oh, I don't- I don't, like this, like you guys say some weird stuff, and I just don't get it," yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:56

Interesting, yeah, and could you talk a little bit about, like, your educational journey?

 

Angela Gates  10:56

Yeah, sure. So, um, I went to, I finished high school in, do you want me to tell you, like, years?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:56

If you're comfortable, go ahead.

 

Angela Gates  10:56

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I was a nerd in school, so I did high school until 2019 but I did- Like I did a dual degree, so I got my Associates at the same time as my high school diploma. So I came into school at VCU for undergrad with-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  10:56

And that's why you're a graduate student.

 

Angela Gates  11:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I did three years of bachelor's because I originally was supposed to only do two, but I stayed an extra year because I took a few extra classes in the beginning, because first gen, my mom didn't know what was going on. My dad didn't know what was going on, so it was like, I just- they were like- the school basically was like, "you need to take this again, even though you don't need it." So I took it thinking I needed it, and it added a whole year.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  12:27

Yeah So, unnecessary credits.

 

Angela Gates  12:33

Yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  12:34

Interesting

 

Angela Gates  12:34

And unnecessary money too, because that was the one year I did take out loans for undergrad without knowing, and the ones after that, I never took out, so I was like ugh crazy. And then I graduated from VCU in 2022 got into pharmacy school, and I'm here. It's my second year. I finished my second year.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  12:54

Oh wow

 

Angela Gates  12:55

Yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  12:55

So, it's very interesting that you bring it up, like being first gen and like, just, would you say, like, lack of knowledge?

 

Angela Gates  13:02

Yeah, because I say I'm first gen, my dad swears I'm not, because they- he went to Radford, dropped out after like, two years, because he failed out. So I don't count it, because he didn't complete it. So I'm like, You- He went straight into the army, because they would pay it off. And they were, like, accepting people at the time. So I don't count it personally. I always just say on the first gen, because he never even finished. I don't know.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  13:30

The technicality

 

Angela Gates  13:31

Yeah, so he doesn't have technically a degree. He did go to community, but it was after all of that, and, like, later on in life. And again, I didn't count it at the time, because everybody says First Gen is like completed four years.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  13:46

It's both your parents don't go to college.

 

Angela Gates  13:48

My mom definitely did not. So that for her, I know she she went to a vocational school in Panama. Yeah, that's how she got her certificate. But yeah, it was a lot of lack of it, because even though he swears he went to college, he doesn't know anything about taking out loans. His-  I found out later in life that my grandma did everything for them. So she filled out applications. She helped them with paying for it. She like helped them with getting the classes and everything. So I didn't obviously have that. So yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  14:22

And then I guess, what drove you to VCU, like, was VCU your first top, top choice?

 

Angela Gates  14:27

So, again, because I was a nerd, I like, knew I wanted to go into pharmacy, and so I started looking for schools that had a pharmacy school, like, attached to the, like, main campus. So, like, my options were like VCU was one of them. Um, UNC was one of them. I wanted to go to Texas A and M, right? Tuition would have been crazy. And then Shenandoah for my parents, because my parents wanted that one really badly. I liked VCU because, again, when I was in high school, I didn't care about money apparently, I was like, Texas A and M is the school for me. But no, so I ended up going with VCU, because VCU was number, like, nine or 10 on the top pharmacy schools. And then I also loved the diversity. I came to visit, and I love the city life. It was the closest thing I could get to Texas. I was like, this is the place to be, and it wasn't as much money as, like, UNC, that's University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  15:34

I think I was looking there too, yeah. And then, like, so I guess, like, since high school, you were just like, pharmaceuticals?

 

Angela Gates  15:41

I wanted, so, like, originally started out with Med, Medical field, and then I wanted to be a pediatrician, lot of school,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  15:46

Yeah, Yes,

 

Angela Gates  15:53

And already hated high school, so I was like, I can't do this to myself for another eight years and rack up all that debt to become a doctor at 35

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  16:00

Its fun though

 

Angela Gates  16:01

Is it? But then I was like, Okay, what's the next step? And at the time again, there wasn't a lot of people in my area that were like, my family. None of them have ever done more school. They all like went straight into the workforce that they did out of high school at least, and set- like graduate school was not a thing with them. So, like, I didn't know anything about it. My aunt was a pharmacy tech. She was like, hey, you know, they only go to school for like, four years, so I mean, like, it's better than nothing. I was like, okay, Sign me up. And I didn't want to do nursing either, because I had seen like and heard a lot about nursing, and I was just like, I can't, well, slow it down. Yeah. So pharmacy was, it.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  16:50

Seems like- do you- would you say it's fulfilling?

 

Angela Gates  16:52

Yeah, yeah, especially now that I'm like- because a lot of people have that bias that pharmacies only CVS, Walgreens, and it's not. So like, now that I'm out of that retail environment, I'm like, I love the hospital industry, where pharmaceutical companies is like, some interesting IT stuff. So it's- it's becoming more fulfilling now that I'm out of that retail.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  17:19

it's interesting yeah. And then, so your highest level of education right now would be, you're seeking your graduate degree.

 

Angela Gates  17:25

Yeah, my doctorate.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  17:26

And so, well, taking a complete U turn, asking about, like, your family life. Did you grow up with religion?

 

Angela Gates  17:35

A lot of religion, but I wasn't Catholic. That's the one thing I've learned. A lot of my Hispanic friends were Catholic. We were not, we were Christian. And it was crazy, because I spoke to my mom when I was older, because once I had made my friends and all of them were Catholic, I was like, Mom, why are we Catholic? She was telling me that she originally was, but she had a traumatic experience with one of the priests, and she, I guess something happened in the church. I don't know what, but it was just so bad that she completely did a switch on the religion. Found Christianity instead. So, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  18:13

So very prevalent in your life.

 

Angela Gates  18:15

Oh my gosh. When I grew up with nothing, basically like I didn't watch Harry Potter, Halloween was- we couldn't go trick or treating. We weren't allowed to and trick- like Halloween night, we were stuck in the house watching movies,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  18:30

Why?

 

Angela Gates  18:31

Witchcraft, devil, Satanism.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  18:34

So you guys never celebrated Dia de Los Muertos? I mean, I guess that's not-

 

Angela Gates  18:37

No, she's never, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  18:39

Interesting. I mean, it's like, Mexican American culture but-

 

Angela Gates  18:42

You would think, like a lot of people, I didn't even know about it until, like, I was in what third or fourth grade, because, again, my friends would talk about but I had no idea what was going on. So I was like, Okay.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  18:56

And then what did you, would you say that you practice or?

 

Angela Gates  18:59

I, I'm trying to, but I keep finding, like, especially with all the politics going on, the hypocrisy that some of these people have. So it's hard for me to, like, find that spirituality in that, but I've been doing it on my own. I just don't listen to anybody. I'm very stubborn with that, especially with my parents, because both of them are very, like, judgmental, and, like, they say things and then do other things. And I'm like, okay, that makes no sense. So I had to, like, just, I'm trying to get through about myself. Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  19:35

And then would you say, like, that became so, like, since you went to VCU, like, college, leaving the nest,

 

Angela Gates  19:46

Not gonna lie,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  19:46

Having your own ideas

 

Angela Gates  19:47

When I first left, I completely dropped religion. Like, I stopped going to church, I stopped praying, I stopped reading my Bible. And they would come and like, be like, "Hey, are you going to church?" Like, literally, when I moved down here, they found me a church, and we went to go see the church. And I was like, "Oh yeah, I'll come." Never went. And so I was like, they constantly are like, "we're praying for you to find a church or go" and like, I go when I like, I'll go to church when I'm back with them. But here, at least I don't I like, just don't. Yeah, I'm doing it my own little way. So it's like, I'll get there eventually.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  20:27

So yeah, and so are you comfortable talking about your immigration status with your mother?

 

Angela Gates  20:35

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I don't know much. I just know that she did it? I think they got married first, and then she came. I don't know too much, though, but,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  20:46

so I guess, yeah. So, with you being US born, let's talk about, you know, how your experience like moving to Richmond, or, I guess, not Richmond, but arriving in Virginia. Could you tell me, like, a little bit more about, like, how did you and your family come to live in Virginia, and how long have you lived here? And, like, Did you live anywhere else? So I know you talked about Texas.

 

Angela Gates  21:05

Yeah. So we moved here to Winchester, originally in Texas- in Virginia, and then we did another move, like, two or three years later, and I went to a smaller town near Winchester, called Steven city. Even less people. Let's just put that way, less Hispanics, less everything. Just talk about like that move and all that? So,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  21:30

Whatever you're comfortable, your experience I guess in Virginia, like, yeah.

 

Angela Gates  21:34

Again, like earlier, I- I guess it was just a shock to see so many white people compared to Hispanics at first, because I didn't, we did live in Winchester, which is more of, like a city, city count, city district type of thing. So it was a lot of, like, old money type of people there and like, it was just different, for sure. It was a shock for me, and I didn't like it at first. I hated moving. I was very against it from the beginning, I still kind of am, but, I mean, I'm here already, so it's like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  22:12

But did you like enjoy any parts of moving? There must have been something.

 

Angela Gates  22:17

I mean, I was closer to family, which is great, but you get tired of the same people over and over, and when they're only five minutes away. And like, you have, like, you're there all the time, it's like, okay,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  22:32

How was your, I guess, your high school experience in, like, Winchester? And, like, how did that navigate? Like, socially,

 

Angela Gates  22:38

It was rough,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  22:39

Okay,

 

Angela Gates  22:39

Like, when I was shy, like, I was way more shy than I am now. So I was very, like, closed off. And so if I had a group of friends, it was, like, two people, three people, very tight knit. And on my classes, I did not have that. And it's funny, because I didn't take Spanish in high school, I mean, in middle school until, like, sophomore year of high school, and then I was like, let me just make this list, because I did French originally. And I was like, What am I doing with my life? Why am I not doing Spanish? And then when I took Spanish at my high school, all Hispanics, literally, all Hispanics,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  23:19

All native speakers.

 

Angela Gates  23:20

And it was all native speakers who had just, like, all my- the ESL kids were in that class, and then it was also students who knew the ESL kids, but were US born or had immigrant parents. And that was hard, because it's so weird. I didn't fit in either group technically, because it was like, one group had just got here, and they were transitioning into this life. The other group was, like more whitewashed, and they had been in Winchester all their life, so it was like they were, as I said, whitewashed. So it was like completely different. And then you had, like that middle mix of people who were good with both groups. And I thought it would fit in there, but it was so hard to make friends with them, because they all had their little groups. A lot of the students in the ESL group, I guess, knew each other before school, so, like, they were very tight knit, and then the whitewashed people I just didn't want to be with, because it was just like to fit in with that group, was a lot of money, a lot of time, and being an insecure little

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  24:23

Just in high school or, like middle school?

 

Angela Gates  24:25

it was both. They all came with me through- because I went to,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  24:28

Yeah, it's just like a district that feeds into them,

 

Angela Gates  24:30

Yeah. So like, I went to middle school, seventh, eighth grade with them. Then we went to high school, ninth, 10th, and then I moved again to a county school. So I was with them for four years, but it was like, in the Spanish class, it was all different grades too. So I got to see like, from freshman to like, yeah, it was weird. It was very.. it's just hard to fit in. I had a hard time fitting in.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  24:56

And so with going to the other school, you got your associate's degree, like your 11th and 12th year?

 

Angela Gates  24:57

Yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  24:58

Interesting. And then,

 

Angela Gates  25:05

Well no

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  25:06

So you didn't,

 

Angela Gates  25:07

It was technically my 10th grade year, the other school I had started, and it transferred over, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  25:12

And so then you graduated 2019,

 

Angela Gates  25:14

Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  25:14

And then so you had your- you endured covid while on campus. On VCU campus. How was that?

 

Angela Gates  25:21

It's funny. I love to say that I had a first year. It was, I have, it was, what? A semester and a half?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  25:29

Yeah, I think it was,

 

Angela Gates  25:30

Yeah, literally, spring break was a half of the semester, and I came back home. Oh, [ineligible] Oh, I hated it. I was so sad. Oh, but that- covid was, but covid was where I, like, started becoming more, like, in touch with my latinidad, because I wanted to learn more about it, and I was part of Latinx Student Association here, so, like, I had met a lot of friends, but during covid, it was, like, it was only one semester with them, and then I went home, so, like, I started looking more into it. So that's why I asked my mom about the Catholicism and questions like that,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:10

The indoor days

 

Angela Gates  26:11

Since I was stuck inside. Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:13

Well, so with that, like, did you and your like, family members- So you said you had a little bit of family in Winchester? Could you to speak on that a little bit?

 

Angela Gates  26:21

Yeah. So my dad's whole family is in Winchester. He has two sisters, and they each have two kids, yeah, and my grandma is there now too.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:35

Can I ask you are you the only child?

 

Angela Gates  26:37

No, I have a brother.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:39

Older?

 

Angela Gates  26:39

Younger.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:40

How old?

 

Angela Gates  26:41

We're 11 months apart. We're like, back to back, yeah, she did not wait.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  26:50

Well, how's that with your experience with them I guess, and their latinidad?

 

Angela Gates  26:54

No, he's whitewashed. He's very like, he stayed- he wasn't as smart. He was a sports child. So he was the jock of the family. I was the brain. Like half- like, completely opposites. He was a runner. So he got a lot- he did cross country, and he got to do- when, when we got to Virginia he was a fifth grader. So in this city school, the fifth grade actually went to middle school with everybody. So it's fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth. In one school. It was weird.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  27:32

Fifth?

 

Angela Gates  27:32

Sixth, yeah, it was the weirdest thing ever, because, like, you had these tiny little fifth graders and then you had these big eighth graders. So it was like a complete- so he was with his friends from fifth grade to eighth grade. So like him going to freshman year of high school, when we second, when we did the second move was way easier than mine, because I was a junior. So like each,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  27:57

Yeah, you're already in your style,

 

Angela Gates  27:58

Exactly like he got to start with everybody else, Yeah, I mean, he graduated with, I think covid. Yeah, he was 2020 so, like, that's like that sucks but

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:01

but then he had covid in high school. So, Wow

 

Angela Gates  28:02

Or 2021

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:02

Would you say your relationship with your brother is pretty good?

 

Angela Gates  28:12

No, we, we have a weird relationship. Like, we're not, like, we don't hate each other, but we don't talk. We're not very close.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:21

Silent comfort

 

Angela Gates  28:21

Yeah, we're- we'll see each other every once in a while, we're like, hey, text here and there, even though he ignores me, but that's fine.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:28

And so does he go to college right now?

 

Angela Gates  28:31

No, he didn't want to go to college, so he Yeah, which he does- he's a car salesman right now.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:38

That's where it's at.

 

Angela Gates  28:39

Yeah, I guess it's better for him than me, I guess.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:44

And then so you said, How often do you talk to your parents then?

 

Angela Gates  28:47

Oh, that one it's,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  28:50

If you're comfortable.

 

Angela Gates  28:51

Oh yeah, you're fine. I'm going to therapy. So this is like, I've already gone through all this once, but I don't- my dad and I have a terrible relationship. Covid really, like, killed that for us, especially because I was in VCU. So I was like, getting, you know, I-I like, I was getting awakened to, like, all of his like, submit, like, his mannerisms, his like, racism, was coming out more, and I could see it and acknowledge it. Like, it was crazy, because during covid, I was saying I wanted to become more Hispanic and, like, learn more about that. So I started watching movies in Spanish. Man, he did not like that. He told me to switch it into English. And I was like, I guess, yeah, it was so bad. We did not have a good relationship during covid. Like that was probably the biggest strain. And he's also, technically, I think he's a narcissist. A lot of my therapists say he's a narcissist. He says he's not. So having to deal with that on top of the whole like. I don't want you speaking Spanish in this house like it was, I don't talk to him very much in the end, like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  30:10

Sorry to hear that

 

Angela Gates  30:11

It's okay. Again, therapy saved my life. My mom, on the other hand, when I was a kid, I hated talking to her, but we're, like, very close now,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  30:19

Yeah,

 

Angela Gates  30:19

Although that closeness does have, like, a gap where I don't tell her everything, because, again, the religion, she's very judgmental, very like to the book of traditional, like you have to be traditional. You can't get married. You can't move in without getting married. You can't do this do that, it's like. So she doesn't get everything. She gets more than my dad, but she does not get everything either. So

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  30:47

Wow. Well, like, sorry i'm trying to follow up,

 

Angela Gates  30:52

 Oh no you're fine, I know I just threw a lot at you.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  30:54

No no you're good. So like, do you have, like, you said you had some family in Winchester, and then do your family in Panama from your Panamanian side, do you have any family in the US?

 

Angela Gates  31:04

No, they're all in Panama.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  31:05

What part of Panama, like in the capital?

 

Angela Gates  31:09

No, they're, they're all spread out, really, like they just, they're in like, one area that we usually go to,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  31:17

Like an urban center or like rural part?

 

Angela Gates  31:19

It's rural,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  31:20

Okay

 

Angela Gates  31:20

Its- the urban center my cousin just moved there. But, like, he, like, moved two years ago. They've always lived in, like, little, little houses with, like, the concrete wall and all that. Yeah, that's where they lived. But I love going, so

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  31:36

Yeah. It seems like it

 

Angela Gates  31:37

Oh yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  31:37

When you go to Panama, like, what would you do?

 

Angela Gates  31:41

Um, well, it's changed a lot, because when I was younger, it was only family, because I couldn't do a lot, being younger. I just recently went for spring break this past year, and my grandma is going through a lot health wise, because it's all catching up to her now, like all of the smoke inhalation she had when she was younger, the- you know, her hips are giving out because she was walking in the farms all day picking stuff. So it's like all catching up to her. So when I went, she wasn't able to come with me places, and my aunts take care of her. She's not obviously, like in a nursing home. It's like, not a thing. So they tried their best to take me out, but my cousins were- are all older. They're like, 10 years older than me.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  32:28

 They're gonna take you out somewhere.

 

Angela Gates  32:29

Yeah, so they all, like, had a day with me. So, like, we've got, we went to the beaches. The biggest thing I love going is the mall, because it's so cheap. Everything is so cheap, but it's like, it's clothes are like so good, because I like to compare it to Shein, because Shein clothes are like, so low quality, but cheap over there, it's cheap, but it's a higher quality. So I like, I buy all my stuff there, but, yeah, we just, we do a lot of eating. We- they part- like, they have parties for literally anything. So me coming, they had a little party. It was just like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  33:06

[ineligible]

 

Angela Gates  33:06

Exactly. It was fun. I loved it.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  33:09

That's nice. And then so moving on a little bit just more about like your life in Virginia, like what has or what was Richmond like when you first moved here? And how has it changed? So you moved in, 2020?

 

Angela Gates  33:21

2019. So, I mean, I was scared because I was only- I moved into Rhodes the dorms, but I was just scared because I've never lived, I was the first one to leave. My cousin, I have two older cousins, but they didn't go to school, they went to community college first, so they stayed at home with their parents. So I was the first one to do any of this. I literally, I'm two and a half hours away, and everybody was like, why are you doing this? Like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  33:22

Socially? It's not that far

 

Angela Gates  33:33

Not to them, apparently, apparently, this is like a crazy amount of time away, but it was a shock. Again, having to live by myself. I didn't know the value of money at the time either, because my mom helped me a lot with everything, especially like tuition stuff. So that was rough. I was taking money out of my savings account constantly because I wanted to go out. I wanted to go eat out. I had, thankfully, the dining plan. So I did get swipes. I did get my dining dollars, which saved me a lot during the year, but like meeting all the people from the Latinx Student Association, they were all older than me, so it was kind of hard to keep up, because they had jobs they had- and I chose not to work my first year, so it was very difficult, to say the least, to get through that without working. Socially, no,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  34:17

Academically?

 

Angela Gates  34:35

Financially, maybe. But socially, I tried- like my plan was to get into a Hispanic community, get out of my shell and just like, become the real me, I guess, and not be afraid of who I am. But after covid, it kind of- because, like, I didn't come back. I came back for half a year during covid.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  35:20

So you were you online?

 

Angela Gates  35:22

 Yeah, from 2020 to like the end of that year I was and then the next year I wanted to be on school, because I hated being at home. I was dying. So I moved to Grace and Broad for like half a semester, and then I came right back. It was- to my parents house, because they closed it down, and they were giving the option of people to just leave, because so many covid cases were going up by that- by then. So I just, I decided to go home, because it would save me more money. I would endure that torture.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  35:55

And so that was the start of 2021,

 

Angela Gates  35:57

2021 to like, yeah, yeah, because I graduated and I still was, I didn't live here. I was staying with, like, my boyfriend at the time. So,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  36:09

Interesting, yeah, and so with that, like, what was it like? What have you seen thats change? Like, your experiences, like, it would be on campus?

 

Angela Gates  36:18

Well, it's more like I noticed so many more people in the diversity and all the like, because, again, being in my household, we were very sheltered from like, politics, and my dad's very Republican, so he did not like Democrats at all. So anything democratic out the door. So coming here and seeing all the activity, protesting at the time, like, during Black Lives Matter. It showed me a lot, like, put a big light on them, because they were all, like, against it, and they were the types of people who would say, All Lives Matter. And I was like, um, big side eye to you guys. I can't- I can't believe you guys are telling me this, but so like, it opened my eyes to see them. And being here, like being able to see that, the different types of mindsets here and like all the different personalities, the different ethnicities, really different mindsets, literally, everything was so different. And that's why I love it here, because I'm able to get all of that, those different perspectives, especially with being in the medical field, like you don't know who you're going to see. So it's like being exposed to that during my campus days, especially that first semester. I'm glad I had that first semester, because now I can be like, Okay, I don't know much, but I know enough to get me through, like, being able to speak to them Be like, Hey, can you tell me more about this so I'm not ignorant and say something dumb or like, I just can learn more about it. But yeah, it was very, I loved it. I do love, the campus is very nice.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  37:59

Would you say you- what are your plans after graduating? Would you say you were going to plan on living here in Richmond, or

 

Angela Gates  38:06

I wanted to move to NOVA, actually, because I'm actually, no, I will be in NOVA when I graduate, because VCU School of Pharmacy has a satellite campus up there. So after your second year you can, well, yeah, after your second year, you can opt into going to that school and just stay there for your last two years. Or they have a campus in UVA, or you can just stay in Richmond. So my first year was like, let's go to NOVA. I'm not from NOVA, but let's go. Yeah, yep. So I'm going there. I'll be living in Manassas, so I'll be there for two years, so I can get that, because my boyfriend's from there, so I've been there enough that I can, like, I know how far Manassas is from Alexandria. Like, I know that, but, like, I did an internship up in Arlington with a Spanish- CVS, and it was Spanish immersion. So I was like, in a Spanish Hispanic dominated, not dominating pharmacy where it's all Hispanic. I was speaking Spanish that whole day, literally the whole day, yeah. So when I saw that, I was like, Yeah, this is where I want to be, because I like ambulatory care, which is more like a clinic,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  39:23

Okay,

 

Angela Gates  39:24

Where you go to the doctor, but it's pharmacy who can go and do stuff like that. And I wanted to find somewhere, because I did that a lot here. And there was one clinic I found where was all His- a lot of Hispanic patients, so I was translating constantly for them. And I just felt like a sense of like belonging there, and I loved helping them, and them being able to talk to me and speak to me about their problems, but just feel comfortable enough to tell me, like, what's going on. Because I've learned a lot of Hispanics like to just hold it in, and they don't trust them. So it's like they felt comfortable enough to tell me, especially after learning there was a translator who was on the phone, he was in there, in person, and I learned he was white, so like, his Spanish wasn't good, and, well, it was good, but like, he would leave things out sometimes, and it was like, that is necessary, like, and it's through a phone, he's not even a person, like, in front of you. So when they would see me, and they were like, Oh my gosh, they you could see the relief, of course, when I was speaks to them in Spanish. So like, since then, I've been trying to find places that are more like Hispanic in, like, here, there are some. But I was just like, maybe it's time for me to go to new place. So I chose NOVA, but yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  40:47

so I was gonna ask you, do you need like, accreditation, when you speak, like, say Spanish for another language, when providing services, or is it just like,

 

Angela Gates  40:56

So usually you are, but because they just need the help sometimes, because, again, it's just one guy, and you have like, three different rooms going with patients. So, like, you can't, a lot of- I learned of this clinic because of one of my Hispanic friends actually, she was telling me about it, and she translates there too, but she, because she was a little, you know, more advanced in her career of pharmacy, she's able to go in without an interpreter. Yeah, and even- her Spanish isn't 100% but you can always, like, look up those words to see, because you can have your computer in there and you're typing out notes about the patient's history and like, so when I practiced a lot, I watched a lot of Spanish TV, like I was watching telenovelas, like, constantly, and I would change all my Netflix shows to Spanish, like I was, like, hardcore. So, like, I didn't need to get it, because it's like, so much more schooling too, and it's like, on top of my schoolwork, I don't need to add this because, like, it might be beneficial, but on me, mentally, I would be dead, like I would not be able to keep going so

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  42:10

Well thats interesting, because, like in my field, obviously we have to speak in Spanish. And also, with my other work, is like, I get paid more because I speak- i'm bilingual. Do you ask for higher pay?

 

Angela Gates  42:22

Again, lack of education. I didn't even know I could get paid more. So I haven't. I need to, but I just, I'm also like, really scared of getting rejected with that. Because I'm like, well, now they're gonna like, you know, it's just like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  42:38

Well its a skill

 

Angela Gates  42:39

Exactly like I should be able to just feel comfortable be like, Yo, I need more pay because I'm providing more service.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  42:43

I'm like working two jobs

 

Angela Gates  42:47

Basically, especially now with my current job, I'm calling patients all the time, and they're in Spanish. The amount of Spanish speakers I come in contact with is insane, and everybody else has to use an interpreter, which takes extra time, takes extra effort, because you have to physically call that person, wait for them, have them call and like, I've used interpreter services for other languages, and that process is insane. So I can only imagine Spanish and just being able to pick up the phone be like, Hola, like, Hey, I'm here. Here's your meds like it's just, I'm gonna ask for my raise. Don't worry, I will,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  43:25

it's interesting. Because, like, specifically in the DMV I every doctor's office I go, I can go and just speak Spanish, yeah. So like, when I go get my eyes checked, they're calling my name in Spanish. It's not in English. So it's really interesting to hear that from the other side. So, but with that, like, you know, would you say it's more fulfilling because you can use your bilingualism natively and like, connect? You did say something about like, they trust you more because, you know,

 

Angela Gates  43:53

Because they feel more comfortable with me at least

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  43:55

Yeah in the aspect, but because you speak a language,

 

Angela Gates  43:57

Yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  43:59

That's beautiful. So moving with that, like, what has been your experience with the Latino community, you know, in Winchester, here, or even in Texas? I know you talked about all three but,

 

Angela Gates  44:09

Um, like, what my experience has been-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  44:12

Yeah within the Latino community, and then, like, the follow up question would be, like, those outside of it,

 

Angela Gates  44:16

Okay, so, like, I've mentioned this a lot, but because I was kind of white washed when I was younger, I didn't fit in really well with some of these, like, Hispanic communities, because, again, their parents were completely either they were both parents are Hispanic. No, they were all like that. They were all both Hispanic parents, or, like, they came by themselves over stuff like that. It was just very, like, just extremes and so, like- polar opposites, I swear, and I would just, didn't fit in. So that's why I lost a lot of my like, I guess, latinidad, because I just, I didn't find a group that was like, you know, that gave me that like, Oh my gosh. I loved this for myself, like, I want to just learn so much more about it because I grew up kind of white, so, like, I didn't, they didn't really har- my cousins, nothing Hispanic. They don't, like it's- they claim it, but they don't actually like and not use it, but they're not, they don't represent it in any way. So that's weird to me, because it's like, I'm the opposite. I don't take the white side, but I love my Hispanic like, I just love that side of me. And even though I have to, like, accept the other one, sometimes it's just like, Oh, it's just hard. But with Texas, it was a lot of Mexicans. And because my mom's Panamanian, there's nobody in the US who's from you- from Panama so like, it was hard to find people. And then the Puerto Rican side, because it's so white, Puerto Rican side is like this, but like a tiny, tiny little bit, so you couldn't talk to them in their like, the Spanish, yeah, so I wouldn't be able to understand them if they spoke to me and I'm just sitting there. Like, okay, exactly. So in Texas, that was what it was. But every time I've moved, it's the same thing. It's just they switch countries. So, like, here's Salvadorians. Yeah, I've met a lot, I will say the Bolivians that I've met that's very small in it, so it reminds me of Panama but I've only met like, two or three people who are Panamanian here in Virginia since I've been here. So it's like, I just haven't found my people, but I've, like, tried to immerse myself more here than I did in Winchester. So,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  46:47

So I guess, like being, I know it's not, it's not one of the questions. But like, how do you navigate, like, your Latino community, you're, you know, you're half Panamanian American within the larger Latino community. Like, how, I know you talked a little bit but like

 

Angela Gates  47:02

Yeah, I, it's just hard to even, like, I bring it up all the time, but nobody knows where Panama is. Sometimes they just

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  47:09

The canal thats it

 

Angela Gates  47:10

Exactly, yeah, you don't understand how many times people are like, where's that at? And I'm like, "Do you know the Panama Canal?" They're like, Oh yeah, I know that. And I'm like, great. And it's like, it's just hard to incorporate it, because sometimes I feel like I don't represent it well anyway, and so I've that's why I've been trying to go more down there by myself, so I can feel that, like, connection with them. I mean, the first time I went when I was older, I did get a flag, and I put it in my car, yeah, and I had it in my car for a while, and then it just stopped sticking, so I had to take it out. But it's still in my car. It's just, it just doesn't it's not up there like it used to be. But I try and like the food, it's hard to find here because, yeah, there's no restaurants. So, like, I always get my food from over there, and, like, sometimes I can't bring it because it's like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  48:07

Of course customs,

 

Angela Gates  48:08

Yeah, exactly. So it's like, it's hard to bring it into the Hispanic communities here, saying that, like, I'm part of the minority in that big community, but I like to immerse myself in all of them anyway. So,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  48:24

Well, this is a tangent. Do you know if your mother is indigenous, like,

 

Angela Gates  48:29

That have no idea. I say no, just because nobody's ever told me otherwise, but I don't know. Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  48:38

So with that, moving on, a little bit like, what has been your experience outside the Latino community? Like, like, outside of, like, one people, one thing that people would say is, like, racial tensions that they might experience,

 

Angela Gates  48:53

 Okay,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  48:53

Or, you know, just any community you know,

 

Angela Gates  49:00

Oh, see, I didn't learn much about Richmond when I first started, because I was again by myself, and in this community, this big city, that's hard for me to like, and I was very like routine. I'm a routine person, so I stick to the same stuff over and over again. I don't like to break it, and if I do, it's like, hard for me. So, like, I didn't learn much about the history of Richmond until, like, graduate school, really, because of covid, it killed everything for me. But I mean, growing up, I didn't have a lot of racial tension. I didn't experience any racial profiling. Did it until, like, high school, and I had my first one in, like, what junior year of high school and restaurant, and I was, like, mind blown, because nobody had ever told me about this stuff. So, like, because my dad wouldn't accept the Hispanic side of us. Sometimes he wouldn't, like, prepare us, you know how, like, I don't know how explain, So,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  49:48

Or, like, for example, just moving to Richmond and knowing Richmond's history. Oh, shelter?

 

Angela Gates  49:58

Yeah, like, they would shelter us away from like, how people would treat Hispanics. So when I first got that treatment where a guy literally said, "I'll marry you for your- so you can get your green card", and I was like, I'm a US citizen, first off,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  50:12

Say that to a Puerto Rican, imagine,

 

Angela Gates  50:16

Would they even know if that's the US but, and I was a minor like, this is an old veteran man. And I was like, Mom, is this what happened? So then coming here, it was completely different. I didn't notice, like, I saw it more and I heard about it more, but it didn't happen to me anymore after that, because I feel like here they're more accepting of everybody, like you- its just more diverse. You don't have people telling you that stuff, like in restaurants, even though you have, you have your rare occasions. But like, that's like, how? And it's funny, because, like, my family doesn't, they don't get that. My mom tries not to like, she doesn't like making a fuss about stuff. So even though sometimes she's like a Karen, she doesn't like get involved in any of that. So I don't- she's had her experiences, she said, but she won't like tell me this details, but she like when I told her that, she was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. And I was like, you couldn't have warned me? Like, this is how people are? But outside of, like, the Hispanic- that's like, the one main thing I can remember that was, like, the biggest shock in high school was because my cousins wouldn't believe that, yeah, and they were like, so just shocked that that would happen to me. I was like, um, this is a thing guys, like, I didn't know that either, but let's research it together, right? No, okay. But yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  51:48

Like, with that, like, I'm assuming, like, you did talk a little bit about, you know,  2020, how was  2020 and as it relates to your latinidad.

 

Angela Gates  51:50

Yeah, so, like, the questions is like, how that- so-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  52:06

What was your experience let's say, like, during lockdown, and like the,

 

Angela Gates  52:10

Oh, like with my latinidad basically? I talked to my mom a lot during that time about our culture. I found out my grandpa, from her side was Colombian, so I guess I have a little bit Colombian, but he passed before I was even born, so like, I have no history. I didn't know him. So it's like, kind of big deal, I guess, but whatever. But yeah, I like mentioned I had started watching a lot more TV in Spanish. I tried to follow a lot more creators in Spanish. Social media completely switched to Spanish related issues. But at the same time, during 2020, was a lot of like protest. And during that I, because I was so sheltered, I never had a voice for myself, so learning what I liked or what I didn't like, what I supported, what I didn't support, and being like that type of person to like, speak out and stand up, I wasn't very good at it. It's just, I'll be honest, like, I was very, like, shy about my stuff. Even though I'd support black lives matter, I never would say because of the like, the back, like the judgment that I know my family would give me, especially because they were all against it. So it was- 2020 really did help me find it, because I started wanting to learn more about it and get more into it. I wanted to go to Panama, like we went to Panama during covid, and that was a big shock, too, because they're regul- like their laws and, like, their lockdowns were so different from here, because over there, they were not lenient. So they were so much more strict, yeah. So it was, like, different, but again, when that first, after that time, I like, wanted to learn more, wanted to become more immersed in it. So, yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  54:02

Well, with that, what were some of, like, the biggest obstacles you encountered here in Richmond, just in general, or is it, you know, financially, academically and beyond, I guess,

 

Angela Gates  54:13

Um, I guess it was financial, because, like, I was here by myself. My parents can't help me with anything if I had like, currently I'm paying rent, and it's just me by myself. I can't ask them for help, because they can't help me. That was my biggest obstacle with Richmond I guess. The next one was like figuring out my friend group, because again, be- being that, like insecure kid in high school and moving down here, I became very tolerant. Tolerant- tolerable? like I took- I was walked over a lot, yeah, everything. I didn't care. I just wanted to be their friend. And through LSA, I did meet a lot of toxic people that I wanted to become so close to and wanted to be that best friend. So, like, during that time, it was hard for me because I didn't realize those people were, like, sucking the life out of me and like becoming so, like, toxic to me that, like, I hated just everything, like I did- once we stopped being friends, it's like a shock, because I met people who were nicer, who cared about me. It was just so crazy, because you only hear about that toxicity. You never think you're gonna be in it. And then that was like, one of the biggest things I had with Richmond, because after covid, I found out who my real friends were. I found out who cared about me, because they would check in on me all the time. And, like, there was a lot going on during covid too. So it was like, seeing that like, that was a big obstacle, because I just, I wanted to have friends, but you didn't want to, like, sacrifice yourself Exactly,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  55:58

If you're comfortable, what's toxic about it?

 

Angela Gates  56:01

They were like, I don't just, I, like, let's see. It was a lot of like, because I started dating my boyfriend at the time, and they all wanted, they were all girls too. So they all wanted him so they would become my friend, to get closer to him, and then just, like, literally flick me to the side.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  56:20

That's pretty toxic

 

Angela Gates  56:20

Yeah. And, like, I've realized more and more that that's how they were doing covid, because they would talk to him about stuff, and he would tell me, I'm like, Isn't this supposed to be the same girl who's texting me right now saying, Oh, you're my best friend. I love you. But yeah, that was, like, the biggest toxic thing with the girls. But,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  56:40

Well, outside of that, was there any, like, other obstacles that you faced?

 

Angela Gates  56:43

No, everything was really good. Like, I love being here. Um, if I was rich, I would probably have a house here. But we're trying. We're trying, I guess. But, yeah, it's just those two really. academics. I didn't have a problem with

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  57:03

Straight A's?

 

Angela Gates  57:04

No, I accepted my B's when I got to college. But, you know, VCU was very different too, because I started learning about, like, President Rao, and like, different things with him, and, like, just the school in general. So it was like, again, it was basically that part of me where it was like, I need to speak out more about what I-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  57:27

Like an awakening,

 

Angela Gates  57:28

Yeah, about what I support, what I don't support, is this what I really want to be associated with?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  57:33

And so with that, like, what kind of resources have you found here that helped you, not only, like, with your life, but like, you know, with all parts of it,

 

Angela Gates  57:40

Like res- you said resources?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  57:42

Yeah, resources,

 

Angela Gates  57:43

Oh, resources, um, LSA really took it over, because I became best friends with, like, the presidents. So they were all seniors, yeah, so they helped guide me, yeah, through everything, they were the ones that, like I had, I was part of SACNAS here, I don't know- it's the society, let me see if I can remember this, because this is uh 2021. Its the Society of Advancement for Chicanos and Hispanics, or Chicanos and Native Americans in STEM. So it Yas like all,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  58:06

Yeah all puro de todo

 

Angela Gates  58:12

Yeah, literally. And it was like, it was just really good, because then I got to meet Dr. Garcia, who was the advisor, and she's, she works at the med school, and she was, like, my one recommendation letter I found because she was a Hispanic lady that I wanted this- I just wanted to be- she was the first doctor I'd ever met that was-  because, like, I had met some but I was never close from, like, a distance. And with her, I was like, because I was on the E Board, I was like, constantly in communication with her. We used to have dinners all the time, like, yeah, she was, I'm sad to say, we have distanced ourselves, but it was like good to see her. She was like, my main resource, the girls from LSA who I became really good, not the toxic ones, they were good, but yeah, they were a big resource. The internet was too. But that has its downsides, because anybody can post anything and yeah, but those were my main resources because I didn't want to, like, I needed I, like, feeling comfortable with people, of course, yeah. And if I don't feel comfortable, I don't keep going.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  59:31

Don't want to associate

 

Angela Gates  59:32

Yeah, exactly. So that's how I found my resources.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  59:35

And so with that, could you tell me a little bit about your current job and, like, the other jobs that you have had since, like living here.

 

Angela Gates  59:43

So in Richmond, I currently work as a pharmacy intern at CVS in Glen Allen, and then I just got a second job at Innova hospital as another pharmacy intern. So I didn't work much here, because again, I said my first year didn't work, and that was true until covid. Because covid, I started realizing maybe I need a job. So right before covid hit, I actually worked at the science museum for work study for like two weeks, and then after that, I left. So I don't technically count it anyway, but that was like my first job in Richmond. And then because covid, I lived two and a half hours away, never came here to work. I ended up working more over there than I did here, and then the CVS is my second job here. It's nice, though.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:00:35

So not to get a little bit too personal, do you have children?  No,  So well, I guess it also relates to you. Like, what has been your overall experience with the America, like our school system, good or bad?

 

Angela Gates  1:00:51

Um, I'm learning it's not the best. Like, I'm learning our school system compared to other schools, like in Panama, they teach them both languages. Throughout all school, they go in

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:01:03

Like English and Spanish?

 

Angela Gates  1:01:05

Yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:01:05

Okay,

 

Angela Gates  1:01:05

So like my cousins, they're not proficient in English,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:01:09

Yeah, but they speak it,

 

Angela Gates  1:01:10

They speak it because they're- one of them is a flight attendant, and he has to speak [ineligible],

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:01:11

Yeah of course.

 

Angela Gates  1:01:14

And all the flight attendants there all went to Panama. They all went to school there, and they all know English. So like the private schools, if you have the money to send your child to private school, they show you English here, you don't even get, like, you get a second language. But are you good at it? No. So I'm learning like, we're not very good school wise. It makes me very scared for- because I want to have a family in the future, and it makes me very scared for them, because I'm learning more and more that Tiktok is come- becoming more a thing. Kids are having less of an attention span. And like, I hope, I hope that I can, like, keep TV away from my kids for as long as I can, but I know with the way things are going, that's gonna be so difficult.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:02:02

Just don't give them a phone

 

Angela Gates  1:02:03

Oh, I'm not, yeah, but everybody, everybody, I've, like, I have friends who have little kids, and they're like, Angela, like, we tried that. It's so hard to keep them entertained. But I'm like, give them books, then I don't know what we can do, but we gotta. I cannot give them a phone. I don't want them to go through that

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:02:20

In the future. If you do plan like, would you want your children to be bilingual?

 

Angela Gates  1:02:26

Yeah, yeah. Oh, don't worry. I have all my Tiktok saved with the bilingual cards, the books. I'm gonna be- my mom, hopefully, if she's still alive and nothing happens to her and she's healthy, she's gonna come with me. She's gonna come and live with me, and we're gonna teach my kids Spanish, because I want them to have a better sense of what that, like, that latinidad is, and have that, you know, like, don't lose- I don't want them to have what I had, where I lost it and I wanted it back. And it's like, it's kind of like, late, so, yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:03:03

so I know you are working, but are you part of, like, a larger organization, or, like, represent an organization? Or No.

 

Angela Gates  1:03:10

Like, what type of organization?

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:03:11

Like, just like, I know, like, for example, on campus, are you still, like, do you represent the Latino community through the organization? Or no,

 

Angela Gates  1:03:18

Oh, the SACNAS, no, because it's undergrad only

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:03:22

So no- nothing a part of an organization?

 

Angela Gates  1:03:25

No, we were trying to open a Hispanic- National Hispanic pharmacy organization at school, but there's not a lot of pharmacy students who are Hispanic, so it didn't go very well. But yeah

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:03:38

No, so probably to the most extreme part of this interview, what was your experience during the pandemic overall, and how did you first learn about covid? For example. Oh, an email. An email?

 

Angela Gates  1:03:53

Yeah, because covid, I had heard about it through like Tiktok and TV. Well, no, I didn't have Tiktok there- when the- co- when covid first started. I didn't really know much, because I hate watching news. I do not like news outlets, especially the ones on TV, like Fox and all them, because I just feel like they only highlight what they want to highlight. They don't, so like, I've never liked, and my dad loves it, so he would play it all the time. And we had just heard about this whole thing in New York where people were getting sick and dying. And I was like, What is this? And then that email from the school where they're like, You guys have a longer spring break because of,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:04:38

Two weeks right?

 

Angela Gates  1:04:38

Yeah, it was two weeks. And they're like, You got another week off because of this thing called covid? And I was like, What is this? And then, like, more like, you would see all the like news, like, that's when I started watching a little bit of the news, because they would talk so much about covid. But yeah, that was a first, an email. Crazy.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:04:59

Do you remember like, the day that you had to go on lockdown?

 

Angela Gates  1:05:05

No, I don't think so. Like, when they, like, completely shut down everything? I think I was at home honestly, like, I had already moved. Oh no, I didn't move. They sent us home, but spring break,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:05:20

And then you came back right How did you- because y'all have to collect your stuff.

 

Angela Gates  1:05:23

No, we couldn't come back until, like,  Yeah, we had to come in shifts, though. So, like, it was like a month or two later, I think because the first day of lockdown, I think was like after, because I'm not gonna lie, after spring break- its so funny, because when I got that email, I was at a church dinner, and I was like, okay, obviously we weren't in lockdown then. But then I feel like after that, during that same week, is when everything shut down so and then I couldn't get my stuff from school. I had no clothes over there. I was like, bare bones trying to Amazon everything with no money. It's just crazy.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:06:03

And so with that, like, how did you and your family deal with, like, the abrupt changes to like, covid, like the lockdown orders, social distancing?

 

Angela Gates  1:06:12

That's another- they, my dad so against it. He didn't believe it. He was one of those maskers who would bring the mask under his nose because he swears he couldn't breathe.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:06:22

That's ok

 

Angela Gates  1:06:23

No, this man worked in the medical field, though,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:06:26

Oh nevermind.

 

Angela Gates  1:06:26

That's- exactly that's what I was like. I don't understand both of you, like, have had a little bit of experience in it, and they were so against wearing masks, so they didn't leave the house much. They were against the whole like, lockdown. They thought covid was a hoax. They were those people so, like, I did not want to die. I was like, No, you guys can stay in your own sides. And I like, you know how everybody got that sickness, like, right before covid, I was one of them. I almost died. I was like, dying. I was like, a week down, and then my mom got it too, and she was at home dying, like she could not get up from bed for like, two days. And they swear that wasn't covid, they swear. But I'm like, you can't- we were in the house together, like it's the beginning of it. Nobody knew what it was like. How are you gonna tell me, you had all the symptoms. But yeah, the pandemic was hard because I had to deal with them, and my brother was no help either. He was just like them. I was the only one that was like guys we need to mask up. Guys we cannot go outside, guys. And it was just crazy, crazy. Yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:07:39

And so I know you were able to be online, but were your parents able to work from home, or do they have to go into- be in person?

 

Angela Gates  1:07:46

So I know my mom worked from home. She was able to because she already had a job where, like, it was just calling people, basically. So she was able to work from home. They got her computers. Like she was fully at our house- at that house. My dad was a truck driver, so I can't remember with him, but I just know, like, he used to go in whenever he wanted, anyway, before covid. So it was like, I just can't remember, because I, like, I blocked it out a lot, especially the beginning. The beginning is like, it's just like, it feels like it was yesterday sometimes, but like, some days I'm like, that was 13,000 years ago.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:08:31

Its interesting, because when I'm doing these interviews, and tell people that covid was four years ago, they don't think about it like that.

 

Angela Gates  1:08:38

Oh my gosh, I was 19. No, I was 18 because I started- I have a later birthday, so I always am the youngest one.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:08:44

I was 17

 

Angela Gates  1:08:47

Yeah, exactly. It's just crazy.

 

Speaker 2  1:08:49

Yeah. But yeah fortunatel- were you guys fortunate enough to, like, be able to work, like, all good with your family and everything?

 

Angela Gates  1:08:57

Yeah, yeah. I, after like, a few months, I got to DoorDash a little bit, so I was okay. My mom was okay, yeah, can't remember my dad, my brother, didn't have a job at the time, so it's like he didn't-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:09:09

How was your brother's like, covid experience being online.

 

Angela Gates  1:09:12

He-

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:09:13

If you you know anything.

 

Angela Gates  1:09:15

I feel like he got lazier. Honestly, with his schoolwork, he didn't turn it in as much, and because high school is so different from college with that, because all their assignments were in person. Like, yeah, like, it was weird, because they all had laptops, but like, you would have- there was some paper assignment, so, like, it was just weird. I just remember, because there was a lot of- he would come home with some papers, and I'm like, what is that? And just going straight online, having to use your computer, its just like, I don't know, this is weird. It was very weird for him, I think. But yeah, he got a little lazy during school

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:09:57

With that, like were any of you and your family members or  friends or someone you know, close to, severely impacted by covid, and if you're comfortable sharing, could you tell me a little bit about it,

 

Angela Gates  1:10:07

Like, um

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:10:09

Like if people caught covid, or, you know, unfortunately, someone passed away.

 

Angela Gates  1:10:13

I didn't know anybody that passed away,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:10:15

Any long term covid issues?

 

Angela Gates  1:10:16

Actually, that's a lie I did know someone- I do know someone who passed away. It was a church friend of my parents. He worked on the security team with my dad, and he got it. And it was hard for me, because I believed, like covid was real. My parents didn't. So like, when he passed, I was like, What do you- how are you gonna explain this to me, because he got covid and he just was one of those people who had, like, those long term effects that got him, like, it just does not want to go away. So he passed and it, I know it affected that family a lot. I'm not very close to them, so I don't know much more than that. But other than- I knew a lot of people, I got covid. My boyfriend got covid. His whole family got covid. And that was crazy, because they were the- again, they're Hispanic too. So, like, they had parties all the time, and someone brought it to a party and didn't know and didn't want to tell people. So everybody got sick, and we had to spend New Year's by ourselves because I was sick, he was sick. Everybody was- it was just [sigh]

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:11:24

With that, we kind of already, like, spent a little bit like, how do you think Latinos were impacted by the pandemic? And then did many people that you knew got vaccinated? And are you vaccinated?

 

Angela Gates  1:11:36

Okay, so the first question was, how do I feel the

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:11:40

Latino community was impacted by covid.

 

Angela Gates  1:11:42

I think it was very impactful. Like, I think, I don't know, I just feel like we were all just all impacted with it, like, the same, but I feel like with Hispanic communities, because a lot of the parents worked these, like, part, not part time, but these, like, low, not

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:12:01

Essential workers

 

Angela Gates  1:12:03

Yeah. Basically, they all like, they were losing their jobs left and right. They didn't have, like, the money to support these- their families. And they all like, sometimes there's three generations in the house, and like, you can't have- the m- like, two incomes cannot support that alone. Now that you have zero, it's like, okay, this is even harder. I saw a lot. I didn't like know anybody who got evicted, but I saw a lot of videos where people were getting evicted, losing their houses. It was just rough to see. And I'm grateful and thankful that we didn't have to deal with that. And I don't know anybody else in the Latino community, or that had to deal with that. But I just like, I had heard so many stories on the news, and like, it was just so heartbreaking to see that. But I do think we, like they were impacted. And thinking about, like, the um, the workers in Texas who like, especially with like the um- what was it the picking? Yeah, like, where- I knew a lot of friends in Texas whose parents would like go and pick the fruits and vegetables. And I don't, they didn't really tell me much about it, but I know they probably were affected too, because that- you already don't make a lot of money with that, and you're up all day, and I can only imagine how many people got sick, and it's just so sad, so sad.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:13:26

So with that the people around you, do you know if they got vaccinated for the most part?

 

Angela Gates  1:13:30

Okay, my friends, all of them, got vaccinated. I got vaccinated, but I will say that was very traumatizing to me, because my parents are both anti vaccines. My whole family did not, the only person who got the vaccine with me was my grandma, and it's only because she's older, so they needed it. But yeah, everybody, like my mom, was praying for me the day I went and telling me, showing me WhatsApp videos about how their daughter died after she got the vaccine, and it was just the craziest thing. But all my friends got vaccinated. I will say my boyfriend didn't. But other than him, everybody else did. My family, none of them did. The Panamanian side did. But here No.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:14:17

Well if there's anything about covid, you'd like to say for you know those listening now is the time, but if there's nothing I can move on with the last couple questions.

 

Angela Gates  1:14:26

Oh, you can move along. Covid sucked.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:14:27

Yeah, just the final questions of the interview is just like this little section about you latinidad at large. So do you feel like you belong in Richmond, for example, or is there anything that prevents you from feeling at home here?

 

Angela Gates  1:14:41

I feel like I belong. It's just I don't feel like I found my Latino community. And if I did, they all left, because a lot of them lived in NOVA from NOVA, so they didn't stay after they graduated. So that's the one thing I've been trying to find in Richmond that I just cannot find, especially in grad school, because so so, oh my gosh, so many Hispanics go to this grad school, especially pharmacy school, like my class, I only have one Hispanic student with me, and the other classes, it's like four or five. So like trying to find- then I'm like, friends with everybody, but it's just you want a bigger community, and they're all different lives. It's just sometimes you just cannot,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:15:31

Yeah, of course,

 

Angela Gates  1:15:31

But that's the only thing that's not making me feel at home here. It's just that sense of community from my people.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:15:40

So this is, I think it's pretty relevant. Is there any parts of your identity, for example, or cultural practices that you've like kind of hidden to kind of better fit in? So like hiding one part of your Panamanian side or hiding the other one?

 

Angela Gates  1:15:56

That's a good question, let me think,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:15:59

If you like omitted parts of your identity to, like, better be American.

 

Angela Gates  1:16:04

See, I've done the opposite. I've omitted the white part of me to be better,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:16:09

Yeah,

 

Angela Gates  1:16:10

like, not because, again, during covid, that was a lot of, like, Trump supporters, and it was very like, it brought out a lot of hate through people, and I was so scared to be associated with them, so I would, I literally would never say it. I would always say I was Hispanic, because they wouldn't- they wouldn't question it. They wouldn't even ask me, Are you white? Like it wouldn't come- because I don't, I, my complexion is very like, I look Hispanic, like I don't look white, so I that's the one- I- that's the one thing I've hidden. When I was younger, it was opposite, like, I tried to, like, mix both together, but yeah,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:16:51

So you never felt like the need to, like, refrain from doing something culturally to better fit in.

 

Angela Gates  1:16:58

No, I don't think so. I've tried to be as authentic as I can be, but because I'm also, I haven't really, like, gotten to know all of my Hispanic side yet, I'm still trying to get it back. It's like, I'm just, I've done enough that I think I'm okay, but I got a lot more to go to so,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:17:19

So with that, like, just talking about, like, you know, politics, more, what do you think about how the issues of immigration is talked about by politicians as well as, like, the general public, and what would you like them to know about Latinos? So, like, whatever, you know,

 

Angela Gates  1:17:35

It's just, I- again, because of news, I'm very like, I shield myself from it because I don't want to say the wrong thing.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:17:43

 Well, there's no right or wrong answer  Yeah

 

Angela Gates  1:17:44

Yeah, yeah. It's just crazy. Because, like, I feel like anybody, if they want to come here to get a better life, they should be able to, because there's a lot of people here that also have families that immigrated in like, I hated Trump, and I hated the way everybody was hating on Hispanics at that time, and like calling them illegals. It was like, I'm sorry. They pay- they- they're not here, like stealing your land or anything like that. They paid their way to get here. They're working hard, maybe even harder than some people, and it was just, I hate it, like everybody deserves their chance here. And I admire some of them because I've met some, like my boyfriend's dad immigrated from El Salvador, and he was the only he was the oldest, and he was the first one to come here. So he had to come and do all by himself, grow his business. Now he's a successful restaurant, owner of two restaurants, and he's doing better than my family, And it's like, you've been here, my parent- my dad, especially because I- he has that same mindset as my boyfriend's dad, but they went completely different ways. Like my dad is like, he says he wants to do big, but he just doesn't do it. This guy said he wanted to do it, he came, worked hard, and he did it, and now he's successful and it's just like, my dad's also the type of person who is like, we need to get them out of our country. They don't belong here. Like he was that type of person. And like hearing that made me so mad, because I was like, my mom is not a US born citizen. She may be a US citizen now, but she had to immigrate too. You and her got married so she could come and live here. And it just, I feel so like I want to learn more. I hate the conditions they have them in, in ICE. I hate so much learning about the like the hysterectomies they do to women literally broke my heart. I was so mad. So I would get into arguments with my dad all the time and be like, That's not how you treat a person. I would bring religion in it, because they say Jesus loves everybody. Why are you hating on them? Why are you treating them like this? Then they wouldn't be able to answer my question, then they would give me more hypocrisy. And I was like, no, these people are human beings. Yes, they came to our country, but they're working hard. They're not like they're trying to learn and get a better life for their kids, further, just for everybody in general. You wouldn't do that? It's- It's just I like, I want to get- learn more, just like, I don't know how what to do with my background in, like, the medical field, other than just, like, provide them services, because that's where I bond. I love free clinics. Love them. So that's where, like, I think I want to go into but I also don't know, like, where I want to go in pharmacy anyway. So it's like, that's one option, yeah.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:20:54

But it seems, for someone that doesn't watch the news, seems like you know what's going on.

 

Angela Gates  1:20:58

See, it's crazy. Tiktok saves you.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:21:02

But yeah, with that, like, what would you like those listening, the public to know about, like, your life story, and is there anything like that you want people to take away from this interview? Like, what should someone take away?

 

Angela Gates  1:21:17

I- the biggest thing for me, I guess, would be like, although I'm not fully, like, full, full 100% Hispanic, that white part of me is always going to be with me. But it doesn't take me away from the, like the Hispanic community. Doesn't take me away from feeling a part of the community because you, like, just, you want to be a part of something, and that Hispanic community is like everything, like they are so welcoming. There so many different backgrounds you can be. Even if you don't know yours, you can learn about somebody else's and be immersed into that one, I would say, like, don't, don't give up. Like you may feel like you're not close with your Hispanic side, and you may have lost it, but like, you have time, you can get it back. You can learn your Spanish again. Like, I completely lost mine like I stopped speaking, and like, I'm getting it back now, and I can have conversations with people and translate for them now. Like, that wasn't possible,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:22:17

And get paid more

 

Angela Gates  1:22:18

Exactly, but yeah, I would say just like, we love everybody, like, don't feel like you have to fit in with one side of your life if you want to learn more about the other, learn it.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:22:34

That's beautiful.

 

Angela Gates  1:22:35

 Oh, thanks.

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:22:35

So is there anything that you would like to add that you we may have not talked about anything at all?

 

Angela Gates  1:22:41

No, I think we've covered it all. It feels like,

 

Mateo McMinn Bautista  1:22:44

Well, if there's no more questions or nothing for me, and that's all the questions I have for you, obviously, thank you for sharing your time with me today, and we'll conclude with the recording and get you on your way.

 

Angela Gates  1:22:57

Ok thanks