Angela Bullock  

Yep, yes, the demographic, then everything, yep, so that's good. All right, all right. So my name is Angela Bullock. I'm a student at VCU at Virginia Commonwealth University. I'm interviewing Aida Pacheco. Pacheco, Aida Pacheco from, it's on the demographic sheet. Here we go. Yeah. So from Hanover County, Virginia. Currently, Today is April 7 at about 4:19 at Cabell library on VCU campus. So yeah. Thank you so much for allowing me to interview you for the project. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

Thank you for inviting me.

 

Angela Bullock  

Okay, If you'll excuse me, I'm using the notes probably a little bit more heavily than I should. But anyway, so can you start off by telling us? Yeah, I guess, like, where your family's from, your childhood and kind of how you grew up because you're born in New York.

 

Aida Pacheco  

Yeah, I was born in New York and raised in New Jersey in the capital Trenton New Jersey. And as a matter of fact, when my family came to Trenton New Jersey at that time, there were not that many Latinos. My mom and my dad and uncle were kind of one of the first to move in that area. And elementary years, I grew up in an all Italian neighborhood. It was cited in Time magazine to be one of the most preserved Italian neighborhoods in the country, and you would have the baseball player, DiMaggio, who was married to Marilyn Monroe, they would come to, it was called Chambersburg area for the food. It was known for its food. So we moved into this Italian neighborhood. We were the first Puerto Ricans. My brother and I, our family, and then my brother and I were the first Puerto Ricans to attend the elementary school there. And so although my complexion is very fair, we never denied our heritage, because that's how we identified ourselves as Puerto Rican. And so we were called spic and spam, because spic was the derogatory word for Puerto Rican. And so they did not, would never remember getting into any physical ultercations, but just name calling. And remember coming, walking home from school and telling me, confronting my mom, and she says, Look, I don't want you to start any fights. Just ignore them. Walk away. Nothing to be to ashamed of. You have a family, a family that, we were involved in Puerto Rico government and lot of contributions, etc, just ignore it. So we did that, and they actually became, we went through high school, and some of them followed us through high school and became some good friends at that time. So the area that I grew up, Trenton, was very segregated, small city, but you had the Italian neighborhood, you had the black neighborhoods. And, you know, the Puerto Ricans were sort of slowly, kind of integrated in a different, you know, parts the Puerto Ricans at the time were the dominant, domineering sub group. So my elementary school years, I remember the neighborhood we lived in. They they were very upset the Puerto Ricans were moving into their neighborhood. And of course, not wanting us there. When we moved to another part of the city, which was predominantly Jewish, in west part, western part of the city, they were very upset, and the neighbor who didn't want us in the beginning cried. So, you know, it's amazing. I think once people begin to know you and we were like the place to go to, for the kids to play and everything. So, so it wasn't all bad. I have some fond memories of that. But junior high, it was about 1970 that I graduated, 1969 to 1970 because Junior High was seventh to ninth grade, and that was the west part of the city, as I mentioned. And Martin Luther King was assassinated, you know. And following his assassination, it triggered a lot of racial disturbances in the city, and education was interrupted quite a bit, especially during the spring and fall and that predominantly Jewish Junior High was a public school, but predominantly Jewish, the influx. They kind of left and moved into their own school. And so it became predominantly black, few Latinos, a few whites that were there. And I remember, you know, like I said, one of the disturbances, some of my friends who were white, you know, being punched, you know, or hidden hallway it was, it was kind of a, not a very...feeling safe, you know, at the time. Then those disturbances carried through High School, which was 10th to senior year. And

 

Angela Bullock  

Just to have some clarification. So how about how big was? Like, how many students were in your junior high? Like, how big of school was it?

 

Aida Pacheco  

Junior High was three grades? It's difficult to say, but I will tell you that the high school was the only city high school, public high school. It was 3000 students, so about 1000 in each class. So I would say we have five junior high schools, so I would say maybe 1000 or more at the junior high, but at the time, if I remember, they also had an elementary school to the junior high school. So I'm not including the numbers that elementary school. When we got to high school, the disturbances followed, and it was again, I remember they brought in a principal who was a former football player, black principal, who was very strict, and he basically put in a lot of discipline and made sure that the teachers were role models you have a mentor, and you had, he took away some of our privileges. I remember the first year we had security guards brought in. We had German Shepherds now, and I was what I am, a year ahead. I mean, so I was fifth, I guess, 15, 14, when I entered 10th grade, and then you could feel, I remember being in a class, and you hear silence, and when there's silence, you knew something was brewing. It was around the spring, I think that time, we had someone who was graduated to come visit the chemistry teacher. We were in chemistry class, and he came from Harvard. He was a black student who was a student at Harvard at the time and came to visit, and all of a sudden that sound became louder. It's like this, like a herd or something, you know, of elephants or something, it was really loud. So he immediately thought very quickly, and he had us lock the door, and he moved us to the back laboratory room and had us pick up something. But what happened was they couldn't get through the door, so they just broke the glass and then rushed through. And so again, education for me, we had great teachers, but some of them, basically it was that fulfilling prophecy. You know, all the white kids, a lot of them moved, although they still have white kids in the school who had McKinnon was mainly black. There you had, like, some Latinos who were always in the middle. Then you had the mainly Italians that remain there. So there was that fight between them. It was, it was tough because some of them just didn't want to teach, you know. So then

 

Angela Bullock  

So you kind of had a, had a somewhat integrated school system, and then Dr King gets killed in April of 68.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 it changed the demographics. 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah, that's so that's when you so you noted the white flight of like, that's when

 

Aida Pacheco  

They either went to private schools, or to the suburbs, or, you know, on school and with the kids. Again, it was like a West Side Story. There was another disturbance that we had, that we locked ourselves in the third room, band. It was the band room at the time, and but I was able to see outside. And there was a gang leader who happened to be Puerto Rican, but she was the leader of a black gang. She was very dark compllected. And she asked this girl who happened to be Italian, can I borrow some matches. And she said, Sure, and she gave her the matches. I don't like the way you handed that to me. She took her by the hair. I'll never forget her, and she just swung her around all of a sudden, you see, I don't know where they came, but it was the Italians on one side from that section, I told you, James Burke, blacks on the other side, with chains and bats. And it just, you know, the class, but on both sides are a lot of kids that were hurt. So that's when you talk about my upbringing. It was always being proud of being Latina. Had a strong sense of community, even then. My mom said, you know, we were fortunate. You know, we were not rich, but we were low, I guess, working poor at the time. But I never known to be go hungry, say, but I know them to be struggling, because during that time, a lot of the manufacturing moved out of Trenton New Jersey. I don't know if you're familiar with the brand Lennox and Beam, but Lennox came from Trenton and Jacqueline Kennedy at the time, went to visit Trenton to pick out the China from the Lennox factory there to White House. So it was a very well known city, you know, and with a great, great reputation producing some stellar, you know, students. And then, of course, you know the standards, not because of the students, but because teachers. I think, you know, the influx of people moving out, the tax base, lower tax is coming into the city. But as a Latina, it was interesting, because my friends were Italian, from both, you know, and white, and I had friends black, and then friends from, a few Latinos. And so Latinos would say, sometimes I would think that maybe I wasn't Latina Puerto Rican enough, because I would hang out sometimes with my friends, because a lot of my classes, advanced classes, the majority were, you know, white, and then, you know, my black friends, they thought I was, oh, you're not white, you're black, which, That was kind of interesting.  And then so it was. It was really navigating, trying, at that time, to take the best of both worlds, right? And navigating through all of that. Through that, you know, like I says, we had one person that came in, Latina as a counselor who was there voluntarily. They didn't even want to pay her. We didn't have bilingual education then in our school district, and so we had, maybe one person who was from Spain who taught Spanish. My mother came in as a part time truant officer, bilingual, and that was it. So the students, you know, I've always had this community advocates, advocacy in me, and like I said, my mom said, you know, you need to to pay it forward, basically, you know, and help others, right? So we,  a bunch of young kids marched in front of the high school, like the Spanish kids, we marched in front of high school. Little signs. You know, we would go to the board meetings. We would bring parents who didn't know English, but we said we got to come. My brother was very, very active, and I learned a lot from him very early on. And so we finally got her to be paid full time. And we and that sort of rooted and started bilingual education. 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah.  There you go

 

Aida Pacheco  

 In Trenton, New Jersey. It was really exciting. Yeah. 

 

Angela Bullock  

So, what was the So, what was the makeup of Trenton by that time, when you were in high school, because you have because you have the white flight, you have more African American students coming in. So, like, were, like, were, I guess, Was your was your family? Like, part of the bigger migration of Latinos into Trenton

 

Aida Pacheco  

it started, it started growing significantly. But we're still very much in the minority. Okay, we were still very, although the school composition. The demographic was predominantly black, although you used to be like, why the city, the resident the city itself, it was almost even with blacks and whites, maybe, maybe whites, but they were going to the the parochial schools. We had two major Catholic high schools, St Anthony's and St. Jocobs And and so they would go there, or they went to Jewish, you know, as well, I was telling you, private school. But then it started to be where they started to migrate to the south. Otherwise, go into the the suburbs, excuse me. And then then you had to be dominantly black. And then the Latino population started to rise. So I would say at the time, so we were very much still a minority, but we were having more Latinos from Central America. It was the Latino population was becoming more diverse. Whereas predominantly Puerto Rican, you're getting dominicanos, you were getting cuaton echoes, Ecuadorians. It was spreading. When I was, when I applied to college, I remember some I was part of an Upward Bound program, and the head of the upper bound program took interest in me, and so he knew I had started like a I started tutoring program there that my the club that I, I led the Latino club, the Puerto Rican club, and we started a scholarship from the only you know club in the history of the school where that we actually did a scholarship fund. We did the criteria. We raised like five. $5,000 which at the time was a lot of money. So he took interest in he knew my background and what the contributions I made to the school, the leadership role I was in student government. And he told me, you know, you should apply to Princeton. And I lived maybe not quite 20 minutes from Princeton campus, and never laid a foot on it. I never really had an idea what an Ivy League was, just I said, I don't know, and no, I think you should apply. So I applied to Princeton. I applied to four other schools and got accepted to all of them with scholarships because my parents couldn't afford and received, actually, early admissions to Princeton. And my first time in the college was through early admissions. I remember they had a reception for us. There was a lot of animosity among the white students that were in the advanced classes that applied. Many of them applied. So, you know, it's right there. And say, telling me that the only reason I got accepted was because I was Puerto Rican affirmative action, and all that, and I was a token. It was very hurtful, because I already had sort of a complex, you know, I had a undiagnosed learning disability and, and, you know, when your friends tell you that, and then teachers, my own counselor found out, didn't really write me a kind of recommendation letter that you expect for someone who has full confidence. Many of the counselors at the time, this was in the early 70s, were telling us that we need to go to community college or vocational because we were not either prepared or, I guess they would say we're not smart enough, but basically, technically, that's what it was, and I have no issue with with going to community college. Don't get me wrong with vocational schooling. But the problem was that they were doing it for the purpose of for the for their thinking, yeah, yeah, conceived stereotypes and discriminatory notions that we were just not good enough, right? Although, you know, we had 1000 or 800 students that eventually graduated, we had started with 1800 graduates, like 10 in my class, or a student, you know, you know, I had the qualifications, but they did not get accepted. So one teacher even came up to my mom a couple weeks later, and said, you know, we give your daughter less than a year. So this is the kind of, oh, yeah, less than years she's not gonna make. And I think what they're thinking, they're thinking that culturally and they may have now, thinking back and as well, you know, people probably didn't have the preparation, the cultural, you know, it's a big difference. And so my mom, who was very conservative, conservative, you know, so the kind of just said, you know, maybe you should just go to community college, like they said, or go to college here, you know, so you can stay home and you can commute, because this is going to be funny in the third quarter. But they, friends of hers tell her, Look, if Aida goes to college, and you can't watch her, she's going to lose her virginity. I remember telling me things like, you know, this girl got married in Puerto Rico, and the guy found out that she wasn't a virgin because her sheets didn't bleed. And he came back, and he's screaming to the Father, hey, (Spanish), You sold me an old cow. This is you know. And says, she says, you know, you won't find you know, decent guy, you'd wanna marry. So she says Yeah, either they're telling me my mom was just telling me that I might have to talk to you about birth control and stuff like that. And I'm like, anyway, fortunately, I did listen to her. Yeah, I ended up at Princeton, and it was truly a cultural shock. It was, I mean, you definitely felt you were not welcome there as a minority. My, Sonia Sotomayor, the justice Sonia Sotomayor, I knew her. She was in the class ahead of me.   And we were very close, this group of us. We're very close the minority. Native Americans. We only have an entire 44 classes. I think we had five, and three of them were my class. That year I was accepted was 1973 and I was 17 when I got in there. We were the first class in the history of Princeton, where most of us came from public schools. So I had a few things against me. I was Latina. I was a woman, because I was the fifth class of women accepted to Princeton, and then I came from a public school system, right? And, yeah, it was pretty challenging, but the support that we gave to each other was was tremendous. We had a facility that was called the Third World Center at the time, and that was sort of our home away from home, or our safety net. Sonia was one of the leaders there. And

 

Angela Bullock  

Oh, wow. so, sorry. So was that like, an official club, or like, was it just kind of organically

 

Aida Pacheco  

we couldn't

 

Angela Bullock  

So he is a year older brother.

 

Aida Pacheco  

afford the clubs at Princeton's time, and very few women were even allowed in clubs. Alumnars. So that for us was our club. Oh, that was...we...it was the school that kind of supported that the other social clubs. They're expensive, you know, to even join there and so therefore, exclusive, right? But the thermal setting, yeah, I guess you could say was sort of our social club, that the party, yeah, we had a great we had a great time when I was there my first year, my brother was attending Rutgers, and I remember one of the reasons I attended Princeton too was because my brother was very protective, and I thought if I go to Rutgers, I would never have a social life.  He was my older brother. He was there first. So they had a cultural festival there. And I really liked that, and I wanted to bring it to Princeton. So I remember approaching Sonia and my good friend Charlie Hay, they were co presidents of our Puerto Rican or student organization at Princeton, and I says, Look, I really want to bring this here to Princeton. I says, but I want to combine it with like policy, you know, really get the folks on campus, and we can even keep it open, leave it open for other folks to attend, and then we'll have our cultural aspect. Now I'll deal with the cultural aspect you guys deal with with the policy. Sonia was always says, I don't know, this is a very conservative school. I says, I don't think they're going to go for it. Yeah. Say no. They say no, we'll do our little thing. But she, let me tell you, because she was a lawyer, became a lawyer. My friend Charlie was also a lawyer, so he went to the head of the language department, who sponsored Power Club, Dr Francois Hoffman. Really great guy. He had some hesitancy as well, but then he finally, they convinced him, and they gave us some money, and we had our first Latino Cultural Festival at Princeton University. And that was the following year. So I was a 77 maybe 74. And I, being the head of the culture stuff. Thought, Oh, I could find a caterer, right? Latino cater? Come on. No one at the time they had Latino resturaunts. No one catered in that Mercer County area. I thought, Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? I said that these people are expecting food and blah, blah, blah. So got my mother, my aunt, that's the way we operate. My aunts, I don't know. I got, like, seven of the family women and a good friend to come and they made food. They made a Arroz Gandules, which is a typical Puerto Rican dish, and they made the salad, Benin, you know, we just roast pork. And let me tell we had, like, 250 people. And my grandmother, who grew up one of 14 kids in Puerto Rico, she was one of the oldest. So she cooked for a lot of people. She had a caldero, which is a big pot like this. Oh, man, they ate it. They loved her. So my Princeton experience was, you know, I survived through, you know, the friendships you that kind of, you know, the Third World Center, friends that stayed together. But it wasn't easy, like another story I would tell you, the head of the Sociology Department. I came in as a biology major. But the first year, I did well in biology, actually. But the second semester, he was boring as hell, and he the first thing he does his first day of class, first the second semester, he said, Look to your right, look to your left, two of the three of you will be gone. And I had a friend who really wanted to be a pediatrician. You know, I was thinking more in the science, scientists research. And, I mean, we passed the class, 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

But I thought, I don't know if I want to be in this boring lab, you know, research. You know, I'm kind of outgoing and stuff in some books, 

 

Angela Bullock  

what did your major end up being at Princeton? 

 

Aida Pacheco  

So

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah 

 

Aida Pacheco  

what happened was, I went to the career office and said I wanted, to my counseler. I wanted to change my major. Of course, I came to her thinking that she would probe and help me think about different things that I can get into. Well, what do you want to do? Back in my mind, like is, well, that's what I'm here for, you know? So I just said, Look, I like people and so forth. And so got into sociology. So I go into the introductory class of sociology, and the head of the department, who's a renowned sociologist, look him up, Dr Bresler. He, and I think again, you have to understand women were just accepted. He was on who told me, told us about the historical fact about the public students being from public schools. We had three papers to do midterm and a final. And I had, like had anxiety over the first paper that I did, in front of the entire class. These papers aren't acceptable. This is not Princeton standard, so you're going to have to do the other two papers, but I will not grade them. You. Then you, of course, get graded for the midterm and the final. So as opposed to taking that, you know, as a general remark, I internalized that, remembering I had that in come from a city public school and people telling me I'm gonna fail anyway.  um, sorry, yeah. So yeah. And so it took everything for me to go to this professor to say, look, I'm having some difficulty with the second paper. I just have this mental block. And I don't remember what else exactly was said, but what I do remember was, well, why did you apply to Princeton? Why didn't you apply to Mercer County Community College? And that hit me like a rock. I mean, at that time, I was 18, and I just, I didn't know what, I didn't say anything. I don't remember even saying anything. All I did was I went, I walked back to campus devastated. And it was really, I mean, to that fact, I think about it was very hard. And I told my mom, they were right. Princetons not for me,  This is your sophomore year? This was my, entering my sophomore year, my first semester. So I told mommy. I said, I'm gonna pack my bags, Princetons not for me. I can probably go somewhere else, community college like this. I said, So Mommy, you know, she just said, Sure, okay. I lived 15 minutes away. I had a very good friend, part of my support system, Daphne, who was rooming next to me at the time. You know, we had separate rooms, but she was next door. She was always looking out for me because I was a procrastinator. I loved to sleep, and she just want to make sure that I get my act together right. And so she knocked on the door and I opened it, and she saw my bags, and she says, Aida I'm just checking on you. What are you doing? Daphne, I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna make it here. I was told, basically, you know. And she said, Oh no, the hell you are going. You're not going anywhere. The hell you are. You are staying with me, and we're gonna go through this together. So Mommy had come down that time, and she convinced me, and so rest is here. I did graduate, like everyone else and and, but like I said, it wasn't easy, so I don't know the woman to go after graduation. There's another question in between.

 

Angela Bullock  

Well, no, well, I guess there's the only thing for calification, so you, even though you lived close to Princeton, you still ended up living on campus. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

Oh, yeah, Princeton had a residency policy. You had to stay on campus. The only exception that I remember they made for was for the princess of the Philippines, Marco's daughter, Marcos, because the security was following her. I'll never forget that. And so she was in a philosophy class with me, and I remember the security being outside the room, and if you like, approach or anything, they would do a background check on you and so forth. So a lot of students felt that an infringement, and so they permitted her, that the father bought a home in Princeton, and but those are the type of kids. Imagine coming from, from where I came from, like an inner city, you know, struggling your parents, you know, not making much and then you go into somebody with a private jet, and, hey, we, we're having something into the Philippines, and she had a private jet to bring over there, or or folks that, you know, my parents, we had a car, a couple cars, and my cousins, my mom, my uncle, with boxes in a line going into the dorm room, and then next door was a limousine, right? Yeah? So that's a kind of another cultural 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah, 

 

Aida Pacheco  

adaptation, I guess, that I had to learn to navigate, yeah? But I made, I have some wonderful friends. And now, you know, it took me a while to go back to Princeton to a reunion, and then I went to my 10th and got to see a lot of my friends that I hadn't seen in a while, that we became close, and we decided, you know, we need to come back because Princeton, we're just as much as Princeton as anybody else is here. Is here. You know, we got here with, maybe not as you know, we didn't have the many advantages that these other folks have, but we graduated, along with the many of them who went to the best of schools. I'm pretty sure their parents helped them with their application, and my parents didn't have a thing. And probably, you know, sessions for the what is it, SATs and everything, they some of them didn't graduate. So, you know, we did, and, and so, yeah, so that's we had not an easy time, but we made it, and there were some fun memories, too. So 

 

Angela Bullock  

there you go, before we move on from kind of the, the growing up and everything. So did you grow up with religion? Like was that? Was that a part of your household?

 

Aida Pacheco  

Religion was. Mommy. So Mommy was not. She was spiritual. Believed in God. A lot of faith. Didn't, wasn't a church goer. Every Sunday like I said that once in a while, you know, like, but she made sure that we got our catechism. The elementary school had a partnership with the area Catholic schools. So it's basically a central Grace Catholic. And on Mondays, we would be let out early, and then we will walk over to the school for catechism. So I did my communion, I did do my confirmation, but I do remember it's communion, after communion, that we had to confess our sins, right? And in my mind, I think, okay, so if Jesus Christ died for our sins, right? And we believe that he saved us right for our sins, then why am I confessing to somebody I don't even know, doesn't know, know me from hell, right? So why am I? Yeah, that's funny saying hell, and we'll talk about religion. But anyway, so I remember agonizing over confessing my sins, like, what am I going to say? And then telling people, you can go in front of me, you can go in front of me. And finally, I just said, you know, I if I just want that personal relationship. So, you know, I had to go through that for my confirmation. But really, there were certain things of the Catholic religion that just never really sit with me very well. It's particularly the hypocrisy. But I, you know, I switched Episcopalian. I even went to, when I came here, went to non denominational and and I feel that that one of the things that mom would tell me, that if you follow the 10 Commandments, which really, when you think of, look at the commandments, they're kind of universal, 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah 

 

Aida Pacheco  

you know, let the guy, you'll be all right. And I think that's kind of how I got you treat people like you want to be treated. So I try to go to buy that and but yeah, religion did play, and I do believe in God and I and I think the way that I approach things, and the way I approach people, and I treat people, try to give back, you know, pay it forward, I think came from some of that, but a lot of it, I think, was my mom helping me to understand, sometimes things that you you're taught, but then you see something different, and it's going on in the church, you know, yeah, people so,

 

Angela Bullock  

but she but it sounds like to me that, like with way she raised you, and then from very Early on, the starting, starting to actually implement what you would have been taught in in church,

 

Aida Pacheco  

yeah. And I think, I think she, yeah, the church. I mean, I think that structure was good. I think that the basis, I think has, has shaped me. And so, I mean, you know, the church, you know, a lot of people do give, you know, the food banks and things like that. I think it's wonderful things. And I remember, even, like with the Catholic, you know, they talk about the female sin that, you know, in the beginning, they also taught in Latin. I mean, the church sermons were in Latin, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah

 

Aida Pacheco  

Think about little kids sitting there, like this, boring so, and then you had to, you know, had to stay awake. It was terrible. Then they would tell you can't worship other churches. And my grandfather was in a different religion. I'll remember my brother, like, should we kneel? Because we're gonna probably burn hell, whatever. So, so, but my mom says you need to respect other people's, you know, it was just, it was amazing other people religions, you're here and in their house, but yeah, it does still have influence. I mean, in me, in a good way. I took the good and I put into perspective bad stuff, I guess, yeah, yeah.

 

Angela Bullock  

I feel like that's pretty, I don't know about universal, but a lot of

 

Aida Pacheco  

yeah, though shall not kill, thouh shall not steal, though shall not covet. thy neighbor, yeah, you think about

 

Angela Bullock  

So you were saying that. So you were born in New York. Your father was born in New York as well, but your mother came from Puerto Rico, because you mentioned your grandmother. So was that your mom's mom, or was that your dad's mom,

 

Aida Pacheco  

my dad's grandmother. You mean they had to Yeah, because you have maternal maternal grandmother. Yeah, they were my great grandmother, a maternal my maternal grandmother. All of them born in Puerto Rico, except my when my grandmother came. Maternal grandmother came here. My father was born here. My grandfather raised my mom, and  his sister. So they came here. She was, like I said, she was eight, but, but that generation, they were mainly came from Puerto Rico. My generation was born. So I was the pioneer. I was the first in my family from New Jersey to come to Virginia, two hours away.

 

Angela Bullock  

So when? So what it sounds like, like all your family is, like, Do you Do you know of any family that like you're still in contact with in Puerto Rico? 

 

Aida Pacheco  

I go, actually my mom's generation, you know, I would bring my mom to Puerto Rico when I was, you know, once I started working and so forth and so to, you know, connect with family. Most of her generation are almost gone. It seems like the younger generation cousins of Puerto Rico, except on my father's side. I. I don't know much more, but I do go to Puerto Rico because I have friends and I still still have some family from my father's side that I go to visit. So we do still have that connection very much so, and I still visit family in New York. I have my father was one of like 11 and two remaining siblings I will visit in New York. I have one, two remaining siblings on my mom's side, and my uncle's wife. She's 90 going to be 95 and so I go to visit her in eastern Pennsylvania. So we were very, very close. I really grew up in an extended family, and we're talking about the Latino cultural roots. I mean we I mean the food, they had little kids dancing, partying with their family. The Christmases, everybody would, you know, gather we, we also did the Three Kings Day. So, you know, the celebrating. So it was Christmas and Three Kings Day. I, unfortunately, was a December baby, so I didn't get, like, Christmas and birthday presents, but, but we still had so much fun, and we would go. My uncle lived with us at one point until, you know, he was, his home was built and he lived in Pennsylvania, but there was a bridge Trenton makes the world takes bridge that connects you to Morrisville, Pennsylvania was like five minutes away from where we live. So really, we were all pretty tight and close. Then my generation, like a cousin, moved to, you know, when they went to school in in Morrisville, it was culturally. It was a little bit different. And so we they married outside of their Latino culture. And you know, when you marry like they were boys, and when you marry into a non Latino culture, you of course, have to also be with their family, and I think that the value that the culture of values of was not as strong like when my mom passed. I'm trying to bring that back, like we're having. We're just talking to my cousin before I came here about the family reunion we're having. We're doing it every two years of big family reunion. But prior to that, I would little gatherings where we come to New Jersey, because I'm the only one here in Virginia that says, hey, you know, let's get together at a pizza place. So I wanted to have the younger generation feel that sense of family bonding, and so that we're doing that, and I'm grateful for that, because we have, my, gosh, I have a great, great nephew now. He's the youngest. Yeah, I'm praying for my, my my aunt, who's 95 and she, she still has the old ways, and, you know, want the smell of roast pork and, you know, just the joking and the dancing. So, yeah, we would. I'm still trying to do that, and I'm praying that the next generation, two or three generations after us, that will somehow keep some of that. But some of us have moved away. I for one, you know, one of the ones that moved away, but, but they still, most of them still live around Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York. I don't know if that answered your question. I'm sorry. Did't mean to derail.  Oh Yes,

Angela Bullock  

That's No, no, no, it did. And yeah, like there's there kind of always, is that central person. Just with my experience, my grandmother moved in with us. She was the one at her house when my grandfather was alive, would host the yearly family gatherings for that side. She then moved in with us. That kind of went away. So I've seen my uncle, her son that much. Then she passed away, but then that kind of triggered the like, re that reintegration, and then my cousin, my uncle's son, is now he's, he started the cousin group chat, and so we regularly, and he just had his first son, yeah? So it's yeah, there's always going to be that person

 

Aida Pacheco  

right? And it depends on where you were raised, like my, some of my cousins you know, were raised when you raised in a more predominantly why And you don't have that much exposure to the Latino culture except with your family. So that's why it's important to kind of bring them back and say, and I think, you know, we also have, whatever opportunity I have, you know, we'll have gatherings. My other cousin, she, my grandmother, was the one that would bring the family together. And it would be assembly line to call what we call Pasteles, which is a traditional dish made of vegetables and roast pork. It's like square, rectangular, I guess. And so there was always an assembly line. And since I hated to cook, I was always the one maybe, you know, stringing the patellas or putting the I did start by putting the meat, but then my grandmother saw I was putting too much meat in it, so she fired me from that. So that was the place to go. And then when she passed my mom took her place. And then my mom passed away. So my cousin Debbie, now she's a fantastic cook. So she will have Pasteles like party. And so the family would come. I mean, she'll have a big pot, I mean no lie, this tall, three, four feet tall, huge, and she'll make, like, 250 300 Pasteles. And so she'll freeze them, and then she'll save me some, because sometimes I cannot go there to New Jersey to make up. So there are certain traditions that we're still keeping, and I have a, we're hoping that her daughter, who loves to cook, will carry on that tradition of family and stuff.

 

Angela Bullock  

So with your family, gotta still be in the Northeast. What brought you to Virginia? Because you lived in, 

 

Aida Pacheco  

you know,

 

Angela Bullock  

 you've lived in Hannover Hanover since 89 

 

Aida Pacheco  

89 Yeah, but I think, yeah, I was very involved. I remember I was thinking of going to law school. Actually applied to law school and got accepted at Seton Hall, but I was a single parent at the time, and I got, I defered it because I met my son's father, and he was from Virginia. His father was the one who was the first pediatrician who set up private practice in Mechanicsville, that's where he lived, and they have fewer members. I mean, it was just, you know, the father and his brothers that lived there, and that was it, you know, I think for me, it was, I came a few times. I thought, this is really, really nice here. I liked it the school system, you know, I was thinking about the public schools. It was great. I thought maybe it was time to break the umbilical cord. And never, I mean, school was 20 minutes away. I worked in state. I taught for a few years because I needed to go back and help be an inspiration, I think, and role model to kids. Let them know that don't let them tell you that you can't do this. Because, you know, I was able to do it, and I came from your same background, and so I felt compelled, you know, like my other, you know, classmates that went on for PhDs or engineering or doctors and lawyers, I really felt that I needed to pursue that path. And I have no regrets, but, since but anyway, 

 

Angela Bullock  

so you were teaching, and

 

Aida Pacheco  

I was teaching, I actually went back to teach where I junior high graduated and I high school graduated. And I, you know, sponsored the club that I was once president of when I was in high school. And that's what, you know, we we did a lot of things. I started a dance group called Latin Expressions that we ended up being on TV. I liked it so much. I brought in some adults, and I started dancing there too. So what prompted me to come here was I just felt like maybe it was time, you know, and I did also, I think, for my daughter. But I didn't really take into consideration. I didn't study the demographics of Mechanicsville. I didn't realize that it was one of the least diverse, probably, and very conservative. And so, you know, I was very active in my community, politically, voter registration and education and things like that. And anyway, it was, you know, worked for the city mayor in Trenton, New Jersey, and started the first Hispanic human service organization in Mercer County there, and then to come here, and it was like, like, starting all over again, as far as I just didn't, didn't realize how difficult it was going to be in the beginning, because I'm married, you know, I got married and came here because he was here. And I thought, do that. And, like I told you my earlier, my daughter and her friend were the first Latinas in the entire elementary school. My son was the first Mario from elementary school to as far as an ethnic, ethnic name to high school. But there were, you know, it's growing. The diversity is growing. But it was very challenging there, but, you know, I do like it. I mean, there right now, I've just got adjusted. I've met some great, amazing people here in Virginia, Latino, non Latino, and I've been here now about 35 years, since June of 1989 I still go back to New Jersey pretty frequently. And so

 

Angela Bullock  

the distance hasn't weakened your family bonds, but it just allowed you, in other aspects of your life to kind of branch out.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 I did. I branched out. I think I grew stronger. I've I think, expanded my wings in different in places that I didn't think in areas I would ever, you know, go through, but and, and I didn't think I was going to be as involved as I used to be, but I ended up being more involved. And I'm retired now, and I think I'm busier than I was when I was working and whatnot. But it's, it's been. In a very enriching experience, my son was born and raised here, so I don't know if I would ever really leave. I But like you said, No, has not really the only thing that I do miss. You know, I can't go to everything, and so the family still celebrates (spanish?) you know anything for gathering and that sometimes is hard because I can't make it to everything. But no, I do visit frequently. My family visits me. I make sure of that and so I, you know, have had the privilege and honor to watch my nieces and nephews grow up when I would go to New Jersey, the, you know, Titi would be the one with the van. I deliberatly bought a van, so they all get in my van and take them bowling or the park or something like that. And now, you know, one of them just got married. I don't know if they want to go and hop in the van, but they come visit me. But yeah, I kept that bond, and hopefully until I die, I guess, yeah,

 

Angela Bullock  

so Okay, so you were saying Mario's father, so, so you're two kids, they have different fathers?

 

Aida Pacheco  

yes, they have different fathers. And yeah, so that, that kind of like, was the impetus of coming here. Was, was.

 

Angela Bullock  

So how did you meet Mario's father, because he's from his

 

Aida Pacheco  

Actually, because he worked in Nabisco before they became Kraft off Laburnum. That was Nabisco, and he was part of a team that was training teams at another Nabisco in, I believe, in Philadelphia. And so my sister would, it was during the week, and I was, I'm 10 years older, than my sister. She had broken up with a boyfriend, and she says, Oh, come on. Come with me to party. Come with me to you know, let's set us. You know, it's Tuesday. I don't really party. I'm not young like I used to be. I came, but she convinced me to go to the discotheque. And he happened to be there, you know, because he was there for training, and that's how we met. And, you know, it was my decision. I mean, he gave you I can move here and work in Nabisco here, and it was my decision to do that. And I remember at the time it was just, I guess it was just like, like I said, you know, breaking that umbilical cord once we're on, just spreading my wings. I came here, yep. So now, like I said, it's been over 35 years.

 

Angela Bullock  

So when? So when you moved here in 89 did you continue teaching? Or did

 

Aida Pacheco  

 I actually, when I first came here, I wanted to go back to state government. I love working in government. I actually was working in the mayor's office, I told you, and they gave me the opportunity to create that first Hispanic human service agency. And I established an after school program, a partnership with it used to be known as pic Private Industry Council is now the workforce development (inaudiable). But anyway, it was partnership between business and schools to open it up after school. I mean, there were so many wonderful things I was able to do in that capacity. And then, because I was interested in law school at the time and wanted to see whether that's really what I wanted to do. And I'm glad I did that, because I figured I didn't want to do that. So I had a defer. I kind of like, Tom, I'm not going, um, but I was work. I worked for the Attorney General of New Jersey at the time and Attorney General Sue Terry came to one of our conferences because the Attorney General of New Jersey was the one who crafted the whole drug free school zone that was his concept. Sue Terry adopted it for Virginia. So it happens that I sat at the table with her, and it was interesting, because who knows? Who would have known that I would have ended up here? So in working with state government, I just loved it, and I remember, prior to that, I was the first Latina in New Jersey to be appointed and hired as the Assistant Commissioner of the State Department for human services, and then I decided to work for the attorney general from there. And then when I came here looking for a job, we had a house and everything, and I didn't readily I didn't know anyone, really, and didn't have that network. And so I decided to teach, and I taught Spanish one year at Swift Creek Middle School in Chesterfield. Yeah, so I taught for Debbie one year, until something opened up, and I ended up working for the Virginia Department for Children. It was the first department that actually institutionalized policy. I guess or issues around family, I think it was one of two states in the country when Walter came, because the budget cuts, they eliminated that department, but because, due to pressure from child advocates, they wanted to preserve some of the functions and what they did too, which I was so grateful. The Secretary of Health and Human Services helped us transfer to positions that were needed and so our unit, some of us went to the Department of, what was known at the time as department mental health, mental retardation, substance abuse services. And so kind of moved into that. And there were so few Latinos in state government here, so very few. I was like, the first involved in, you know, substance abuse prevention and that department, and there may be, like, three Latinos in that department, in the State Department. 

 

Angela Bullock  

you Yeah.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 it was, it was crazy. But anyway, that's what brought me to when, as soon as that position opened, I went to that department.

 

Angela Bullock  

so with kind of, because you were saying that your experience in New Jersey was you kind of saw the Latino community grow. Then you moved to Virginia in 89 and much smaller than even what was in... 

 

Aida Pacheco  

Puerto Ricans were not the dominant, there were very Puerto Rican here, coming from dominant Puerto Ricans. And you come here, where it was mainly Salvadorians, and I think the second subgroup was Mexican, and then I think Puerto Rican. But in where I lived, there were few Latinos to begin with, 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah, just in general.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 Oh, yeah. And then, you know, so it was quite a culture shock for me, but made some. I then, after working for the Department for Children, and then for the state, for the state level. I worked for a they called it the Richmond Career Advancement Center and Workforce Development. And that was a wonderful experience, managing grants, program grants. And I there, because you're in a city. I got to meet a few more Latinos. And one of the amazing Latinos I met was Michelle Sager, who you would probably want to interview. He was the CEO and founder of the Virginia Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, and he reminded me so much of my brother. And you know how humble and modest, but how passionate he is about helping the Latino community believe he his parents. He convinced his parents to have it open up a Mexican restaurant. I think that was one of the first Mexican restaurants in the area. But anyway, through him, I got to meet other Latinos, and it just, it just kind of grew so so my network, I guess I can say.

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, so kind of what is? What have your experience of those outside of Latino community, especially like having to work in government, and then being in, yeah, that like growing minority. Because, yeah, I mean, 89 

 

Aida Pacheco  

I think, I think it was, it was a learning experience for both sides, because a lot of stereotypes about Latinos kind of portray us as a monolithic group. And, you know, being the first Latina in any setting, sometimes in state government, I did welcome people to share what, what you know, they felt, and sort of use it as a learning moment, and try to tell them that, you know, I am Puerto Rican, I am a citizen, and this is why, and that kind of thing. And, you know, but you know, I, I really feel like you need to establish people and meet them where they are, and then you kind of like, grow that relationship and that trust. I had very few prejudicial, you know, experiences, I guess, in that other than it was very, very hard to be recognized. Sometimes a lot of the credit, you know, would go somewhere, or I noticed, I would recommend people who were very qualified. but very quiet, but it's very hard to get them into state positions. When I chair the Virginia governor's Latino Advisory Board, it's a government or gubernatorial appointee, appointment. We did a study. I had a study done, and Latinos working in state government was something like a little over 1% something like that, or close to 2% not quite. Management position was very low than that. And the position, the jobs that they did have were mainly in service jobs, and part time, very few of us were like in management position, like in my position, so and it's, it's hasn't the needle hasn't really moved much further, but as soon as that, like I says, I stayed in government. I loved government work, and then when I worked in workforce development for the Richmond Carrer Advancement Center, Governor Kane. I knew Governor Tim Kaine for a while, and was looking to establish a workforce development unit at the cabinet level. And his appointee, Danny LeBlanc, wanted a diverse group. So I was a Latina, a Latina, that kind of worked in workforce development, in that at that level, I think that was one of six Latina appointments, at that level, at that time, under Governor Kane, and we were able to do, do a lot in that capacity. We. Uh, at that time. So we were very active. We, we started organizations like VACOLAO, like I told before that. We, we they started a networking organization of Virginia higher Latino Higher Education Network. And you'll probably be interviewing with some people that are very highly involved in that. Now, I served on the board of that at one point, so very happy that I had the opportunity to sort of plant the seed and help grow some of these with some of these most fantastic individuals that you know, met in my lifetime. They were very you know. And when I say that, I said, not because of monetary, you know, you just can't put a price. It's just the richness of who they are as a person and their dedication and compassion to the causes, Latino causes moving forward.

 

Angela Bullock  

So to kind of continue with moving here, and you clearly, like, kind of, with that change in demographic of Virginia, kind of you've kind of helped grow the community and everything, and, of course, feeling your kids were part of that growth. So what was their experience like in Virginia schools? Like how I'm gonna assume it's very different from your experiance

 

Aida Pacheco  

 Very different from mine, and very different for both of them, because 

 

Angela Bullock  

they're 10 years apart

 

Aida Pacheco  

 They're 10 years apart. And Gissette was not born in Virginia. Gissette was born. My daughter was born in New Jersey. My daughter is like an olive complexion, beautiful. She has more of that tahino from her father's side. So it was difficult for her, because being a girl the pressure you know, if you I found out later, if you're not born and raised in Mechanicsville, you know, they just don't embrace you right away, right? And she wasn't blonde. A lot of girls blonde, believe, it, I was, it was when I say lack of diversity, I really mean lack of diversity. So it was difficult for her, because she liked to be, you know, she wanted to be liked at that teenage year when she got to junior high, she was a cheerleader, she was very sociable, but it was not easy for her. The pressure of and also, I was a little bit more conservative because of my upbringing then a lot of the parents here. So, you know, going out and coming home at a certain time or going to somebody's house, I needed to know where and when, and I wanted to follow up with the parents and and it, it was, I mean, I remember a parent telling me well I trust my daughter, and all I simply asked was, Oh, I understand that you invited Gissette, Thank you. Is there anything that I can, you know, she needs? How much any money, you know, what is your itinerary? So I know how much money to give her? Do I bring her, you know, food or something like that with her, you know, things like that. And she came up with like that. I'm like, Oh, wow. But from my Latino background, I was a little bit more conservative, and I think that was tough on her. Making that adjustment with my son, although there was still a lack of diversity, maybe it was a little bit better. My son was more my complexion. He was born and raised there, and my son wasn't one that, Hey, I like you, but you don't like me, I mean I don't care. He was a gifted musician, and he just was thrust in music from a very early age, but he didn't have I mean, and I think it was because the difference was because he was born there. Although my son never denied his heritage. We always saw and says, you're Latino. I even made up a song. Soy Latino, bunta Latino (parta en equa?) su americano. But anyway, I won't finish the song, but yeah, he was very proud of his Ecuadorian and Puerto ricanness And and he would not deny that. But I think my son was more people looked up to him, I guess, you know, it's different for being a boy versus the girl, yeah, you know? I mean,

 

Angela Bullock  

then yeah, but then also, like, from Yeah, from birth, having the

 

Aida Pacheco  

it made a difference, I can't explain, but it did, culturally, make a difference for both of them and and till this day, she would tell me some of some of the things, but she's a survivor. My daughter is strong, and she's a survivor, and she still has a few friends that she contacts (inaudible) of her, but it was a little tougher for her than my son.

 

Angela Bullock  

I so I guess kind of the next

 

Aida Pacheco  

Did I say something before? Yes, I will tell you that my daughter dances salsa. They speak a little Spanish, not as fluent, but they both took Spanish in school because they wanted to. So they're in tune to their culture, yeah? So I just wanted to mention that.

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, yeah. Well, there was also, it's kind of funny how, but not funny, but just how international that is. One of the strangest facts in my head is in the 50s, when Bruce Lee, the martial arts movie star, was in high school, he won the Hong Kong High School salsa Championship, which he took, he took dancing to better his martial arts. But he was aparently really good at it.

 

Aida Pacheco  

Well, they say that all athletes do their football players ballet. They said it gives flexibility and stuff like that, and it reduces injury. So, so yeah, but yeah. So anyway, they in tune to the culture, not and they will take trips with me to New Jersey, and I wanted to make sure that they some of those Latino values of family and being the social aspect of the culture and and they went to Puerto Rico, so they know about Puerto Rico.

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah. Now again, like I said, before we even put on the recorder, you don't have to answer all of the questions, but if you don't mind me asking, kind of, how did Mario end up passing 

 

Aida Pacheco  

my son, yeah, it was, it was, gosh, it was a day where, I remember he was scheduled to work. He had a part time job. He just, he was, he went to year of college at William and Mary because he was into music. But he thought, let me, let me. That was his passion. But I guess he was got to his head a little bit other people saying, you know, well, you know, what kind of career you're going to do. My music is. Music and stuff like that. And I remember telling him, because it was a recession, I said, You know what, Mario, I said, you're probably in a better position with music at this period than other folks in finding a job, because you can get all these booking clubs, you know, side music and whatnot. But he was a gifted musician, and he decided after his first year of college that that's really what he wanted to pursue. So he got accepted to the Berklee College of, the College of Music, which is like the Harvard 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah,

 

Aida Pacheco  

 So excited. He was so, so excited. We had everything set up. I remember we had gone there a couple times, and we found an apartment and everything. And so this was about two weeks before he was due to go on campus, he was on his way to practice because he established two bands, and one of the bands was having a performance, and so they were going to have practice. And then after practice, he had to head to work. But also, while he was here he set up some kind of jam session at some place called bogarts, or something like that. It was called at the time. And so he had a lot of stuff going on. And so he was on his way to the practice, because they switched the time. So on his way to go, it wasn't raining. He said it was just drizzling. And then all of a sudden he's, there was a storm. I mean, the raain was so heavy, it was like a blanket right in front of you can't, You can't see. I was at work that time. I was working for the community college system oversee, overseeing Workforce Development statewide under the federal program. And he, I got a call from my husband that he got into an accident, and gosh, I remember a friend of mine walking me down. I remember the blood just, I don't know something, how it just felt that it just drained, some drain. I just almost like lost my footing, and she helped me up. I remember, but he basically was turning, where I live. It's like on the boarder of New Kent and Hanover County. I live in Mechanicsville, but it's the boarder of New Kent and Hanover County, and it's a lot of back roads, you know, rural area. And he was going around the curve. And when that rain, he says the rain hit him, because when I found. I got to talk to him at the hospital, and he mentioned to me that, Mom, you know, the rain was so heavy I couldn't see and then I don't know what happened. So the accident that, he was still alive, but, but he had injured, broken femur, and so when we came to see him again in the back room, they had, he began to have a seizure. They put him in a coma because, evidently, there was some swelling going on, and were trying to. So he had the seizure, and that's when they put him into the unit for neurology unit, I think that's where. It's funded by some guy who plays Superman. Reed? Christopher, Christopher. Christopher Reeve, basically the foundation supports that unit, was supposed, it's supposed to be one of the best in the country, and evidently, got an embolism. It's somehow with the femur breaks, the fat, ended up, went to his lungs. What we're thinking is, well, this is what my doctor told me, was that it just went to his brain, from his heart to his brain, and it caused his seizures, and he was unable. That's stem, you know, fell from his brain dead. So it was a horrible I mean, yeah, that's something you never when you grieve, it just never goes away. You know, pain and you learn to manage. I think that's probably why I keep so busy. But yeah, he, he, it's just one of those freak things that young men, it's it's a rare thing to happen, but it's more, when it does, it's more prevalent younger than his age. He was 19, so, yeah, it's kind of, you know something, because when you talk about religion and stuff like that, Latinos, a lot of us too believe, like my grandmother was considered a medium, and there was a woman that you know, that she communicates with the spirits. I don't, I've seen certain things that I just I don't practice it. I don't know, but a friend of mine came up to me and said that she was there at the hospital, and she just fell to her knees, and she called me about three months later to tell me this, she saw this bright blue light, which she said is equivalent to creativity, which she said "your son had". She says she felt all this enormous love and peace. So when she told me at the time, it was a time that my son passed away. Now I don't but, you know, it's something that I kind of feel like, if she was, that he's still here. I still sometimes feel his presence and stuff like that, and I look forward to the day to be with him again. 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah

 

Aida Pacheco  

 So when you talked about, he said about the faith and stuff like that, I don't practice, but yeah, I more or less, I guess, live it, and I have to believe in that to keep me going. So yeah,

 

Angela Bullock  

it's little bit of a shift. So I guess with as you were more live in a little more rural area. So what was the kind of experience with COVID?

 

Aida Pacheco  

Well, we are in a neighborhood where we still do not have broadband. They are, they just installed the cable, and we're hoping they'll be coming soon. Thank God, because of the infrastructure bill, which a lot of people don't understand, but internet, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah

 

Aida Pacheco  

access is part of that. So with COVID, I did not get COVID during that, when it first hit, 

 

Angela Bullock  

With the first wave, 

 

Aida Pacheco  

my uncle did, and this is before the treatment. I think it was

 

Angela Bullock  

 your uncle is in New Jersey.  oh yeah, work from home.

Aida Pacheco  

He's in, well, he was living in Pennsylvania. So I did have a relative who passed from COVID, and what happened was that he had a health care aide for his son. My cousin, Danny, was born Down Syndrome with multiple complications that require care. So she, healthcare providers, who don't make much money, and so you get sick, you know, and she was coughing. I remember my aunt said, you know, you might want to take care of that cough. She ended up in the hospital, and they received a call from the hospital that they could have COVID. So they all got tested. My aunt and my cousin did not, but he got tested positive. They weren't, they weren't negative. And so the healthcare, she passed, in hospital, so he passed about a week or two later from that. Here, it was hard, because I don't have broadband, so to get connected to zoom, It was really, really hard, and it was frustrating. And then the kids were told in my neighborhood, we had a few kids when I first moved, mainly adults. I was all disappointed, because here I had a whole bunch of Halloween candy and got all dressed up, and nobody came to the door. This was 35 years ago. Now we do have a few kids there, but I felt badly for them and for people who, you know, were working, of course, and they would tell us, well, go to, we didn't have high speed internet, so they told them to go to, like, new library or somewhere. So, you know, we like, that's like a 20 minute ride, and it's a rural area. So if it's not stuff like that that you, you know, you either can't do it, or if you do it, you're freezing, right? I mean, you can't leave the car on for a lot of time if you can't go inside the library. They were just telling, oh yeah, go to somewhere nearby. So, yeah, it was for our family. It was a really, really tough period for us emotionally. And like I said, with the access to the world, you know, because, you know internet, you know, my mom passed. She had. Mommy passed in 2019 so I took care of her. Was it 2019 Yeah, and I remember there was a thing where you couldn't, you know, I couldn't go. I couldn't go to my mom's funeral. You know? She was in New Jersey. I took care of a lot of the bureaucracy, you know, red tape and all that stuff. But I couldn't go. I couldn't go to see my uncle. They showed a video, and they showed me a video of my mom. So, yeah, it was really tough. And then I had a cousin who couldn't go to our first family. That's when COVID started, but he was on kidney dialysis, so he died in 21 so we had 19, 20, and 21 and he was, you know, because of COVID, he was still trying to be very careful. And he did not die of COVID, but I think it really affected him being able to do sort of things, and that was hard on us too. COVID was not, it was a terrible time period. For a lot of folks,

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, so where were you working at the time? Because you've bounced around a different

 

Aida Pacheco  

 I'm sorry

 

Angela Bullock  

 departments

 

Aida Pacheco  

The last job I had was with the Virginia community college system, okay, yeah, yeah, and with workforce development, and I retired, actually, when COVID came. It was in 2018 I think, when I retired. But I was doing a lot with my mom and and and I still was, you know, doing stuff with, you know, like volunteer work and trying to get on the Zoom, now that I think about it, and COVID really hit, like, what was it? Like nine? It

 

Angela Bullock  

was spring of 2020. Kind of when, when everything shut down, 

 

Aida Pacheco  

but I think

 

Angela Bullock  

 it was just it was discovered in, yeah,

 

Aida Pacheco  

yeah, I think people were so so 2018 was rough, because I did retire and was helping my mom a lot, a lot, because I was power of attorney, she was suffering a little bit with dementia, and so I was commuting a lot. But when my uncle, he passed that following year, she passed in 2019 and then he passed. So it was 2020 it was 2020 because it was like as a healthcare provider, and I want to say he died in May I have on my calendar, April.

 

Angela Bullock  

So, I mean, that's the Yeah, that was the beginning, beginning of COVID. Then, yeah. So it was a lot of So would you say, kind of like, with all of that rough family stuff going on, you've clearly, like, you've always built community wherever you are, and so that kind of got really interrupted with COVID. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

Oh gosh, but we, you know, with the phone calls. You know, I would use the phone, like, if this get disconnected, I would use the phone, and that that worked Okay. It was, I'm gonna try to expand, but we did. I mean, I'm trying to think of, I mean, there were, like, fundraisers, meetings through the phone. But yeah, to be honest, I can't, you know, I think we were so upset with what happened with my uncle and everything that I don't remember much, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, just kind of all blurred.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 But other than then, yeah, you know, and my husband, now, we didn't kill each other. We were still together. We're still together. I don't know that. Yeah, we take, we will go outside and walk and whatnot. And I was very careful about wearing a mask and everything, especially because, you know, my uncle, I soon as those injections came out, I took the injections. I don't take any chances, so, but it was, that's the it was just rough for everybody to lose. You know, my uncle was very close to my mom, very close. And we feel that part of his depression and given up to was, was that, because it was like, not even six months apart,

 

Angela Bullock  

When my, my grandmother passed. She was in our. She was at hospice at at our house, and she held on for three days until her brother came. And then that evening is when she finally passed. And and I do believe, yeah, that it was, and

 

Aida Pacheco  

I bet you your brother was waiting for her, because my brother did the same thing when my brother passed away, at 42 he was, you know, the nurses. What is he waiting for? Is his I had to take a plane. And my mom says he earlier, he said, when he was able to talk, says that he's waiting for me to hang because I hung up all his pictures. He was, he had all these awards and recognition and and I he was waiting for. Me to put some key that he received from the city or something, and, and he, I arrived, had everybody out of the room, and, you know, spoke to him. He wasn't, he was very weak. But I knew, I knew he heard. He passed away, like, two minutes after that. So I have, I feel like they, they know sometimes, yeah, so I bet you your grandmother, yeah. He was waiting for her, but just that close. Sometimes there's this bond that you can't explain. Yeah, but they were, they were like, they were a little bit more like twins, because they were less than two hours, two years apart. So, yeah,

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah. So what is it? My My father and my aunt were like, yeah, were like, 18 months, she said they were Irish twins, what she called it was Yeah.

 

Aida Pacheco  

, and although they were less than two years, my mom was always very mature for her age. So my uncle really relied on her alot, and my mom really helped him a great deal through his marriage, through, you know, financially and although she was not, but, but, I mean, they lived with us for a year. I don't know how the hell we did it. We and she didn't charge him rent or anything. It was 14 of us in one household, one bathroom. I told my cousin says, How in the world did we make it to school? And she said, she said, Well, I think we, they would bathe us at night. You know, that way we kind of because, wow. So I rarely had a bedroom to myself. My mom, my mom's home was like the traditional home we had every family member moved there until they were able to get there, because that was, was expected to do with Latino families, right?   So anyway, it

 

Angela Bullock  

it just because we're kind of we're kind of on the subject again. I think you did mention your parents got divorced. So what? How old were you when that happened? Because clearly, like your, oh,

 

Aida Pacheco  

Oh we were very, very young. I was maybe two and a half. I was in New York, and my family raised the money could work, or they all contributed to send us to Puerto Rico to live for a year. So I came, I lived in Puerto Rico for a year, and came back here I was close to four years old, and then, maybe not quite four my mom, met my father, who I consider my father, because he raised me, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah.

 

Aida Pacheco  

 and the rest. And his family, they're very close, so they made a pact, you know, they're both close to their families, and they made a pact look, you know, everything's fine, as long as you make sure that my family is always welcome here as well. My father said the same here, and that was a beautiful thing. Is not only did we grow an extended family with my mom's side of the family, but we also sort of had an extended family. This whole I have memories of driving to New York and the big gatherings, and because they had a big family, the Santiago side. My mom was Cortez, my father, Santiago, so we had, we had a very close knit family on both sides. And that was, I have some very cherished memories of that. You know, my father, as a matter of fact, new Jose Feliciano, who sang Feliz Navidad, he would have his guitar playing in front of the projects, you know, in New York. Yeah. We would tease him but it was lovingly, over the year, they were kind of, I says, wow, my God, to see if we hadn't teased him I says, who knows, you probably would have gotten some of the money that he did

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah, that gets, that gets played so much. Hey, he's probably still getting a check. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

Yeah, yeah, those were some fun times.

 

Angela Bullock  

So do you think that experience of growing up in a integrated family like that helped you with when you married Mario's father with having young Gissette because, how old was she when you met Mario's father?

 

Aida Pacheco  

It was about, she may have been about eight. Maybe, yeah, yeah. When she was so she was she was young as well. The one of the things that I think was helpful, and I think that's part of, I don't know if it's like Latino,  We don't stay mad for a long time and Gissette's paternal grandparents are very close to me. They consider me still like their daughter. If I don't go to New Jersey and I don't visit them, they get upset. So it's interesting. And her father and I talk, you know, as you know, and we, you know, we have a positive relationship with respect to that so. And you know, when my mom married and we grew up, we never talk about step, you know, sister or step cousins or anything like that. They're my cousins. 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah,

 

Aida Pacheco  

 that's the way we grew up. As a matter of fact, some of the young cousins, oh, my God, I never knew that, you know, I thought that you were my uncle's daughter, you know, biological daughter, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah

 

Aida Pacheco  

And that's just the way it is. Is the family, the heart. I don't know how you want to put it, but we never really made that difference. So for Gissette, no, I think, I think, as a matter of fact, I think she prefers living in Virginia. 

 

Angela Bullock  

In Virginia

 

Aida Pacheco  

 yeah, she lived in North Carolina for many, many years. She's very, talk about bohemians, very artistic culture, yeah. So I think, and I think it helps that when you separate, I mean, you kind of help you for the sake of the children. But I think one thing that that although I worked, I was a single mom, but I have to work, I tried, you try to be there for your kids. And I think the most important thing is the kids feel loved. Kids feel loved. Hmm, you're there for them. You may not be there like 24/7 but, yeah. I think that's what's most important, yeah, but, but, but she always, they always knew that part of me, and that's who I am, is going to do to help others in whatever capacity. So, you know, they would either come with me, like my son would bring his books to help read to the homeless kids who the church, or one of the local churches that I've been want to, I say characters, characters, but I say Caritas, but it's really characters. You know, the churches have this agreement where they house the homeless for about a week or so. So I'm like, Well, my church is so they could see you or we just said it was, I was on the board of Salvation Army, New Jersey. So was the soup kitchen. So they kind of were exposed, exposed to that. So, yeah, they always knew that I was going to be just that as a baby, when I formed that Latin expression dance group, while I was teaching, you know, one of the two girls who were not practicing, they would take care of Gissette, you know, she was not even a year old, You know, she was not even a year old, you know, yeah, so she was, she would see all that. That's why she loves dancing. She loves dancing,

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, takes a village. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

It takes a village. It really does. And my family was like that. I mean, the kids we it wasn't this thing about, you know, the, you know, you get a babysitter, you know, you have a party says, no, they come with you. Well, as I

 

Angela Bullock  

want to take up too much more of your time. If

 

Aida Pacheco  

you haven't been  you can finish up.

 

Angela Bullock  

 Yeah. As, so 

 

Aida Pacheco  

you guys are probably hungry

 

Angela Bullock  

 yeah. Just got a couple more questions. So I guess kind of the first thing. So, I mean, you have lived since 89 and clearly done a bunch of community work, so, so it's pretty fair. So do you feel that you're part of the Hanover community, or do you feel it, or do or do you still feel that kind of slight, slight separation?

 

Aida Pacheco  

Um, I didn't know when my when my kids were in school, I would be diligent going to the PTA. I knew parents from there. I'm not as politically involved in Hanover County, they would love for me to do. There's such a need for the Latino community to be more organized. There's so many issues. And I'm thinking, you know, non partisan here. We have to educate, we have to mobilize and get that vote out, and we have to be the ones to lead and be the story you know, or be write our own narrative, okay, and lead with that narrative, because there's so much attack on our community, and there's so much divisiveness even among our community. I mean, immigrant against immigrant, that, because there's not that many of us, it's, it's, we tend to when we organize, we organize Metro Richmond. So it's not organizing Hanover is not having it's, if you're from Hanover, you want to be a part of this. So just recently, actually, we're having our second meeting tomorrow night. I started a group called Latinos Mi Amigos, moving forward to, basically, the end thing is to galvanize the Latino vote, and we're looking at, looking at the issues and prioritizing. I mean, we have, we're still in a forming stage, but it's from all over. So that question is difficult because, I mean, I've been there. I mean, in my neighborhood association, I am getting closer. We have a team of leaders for our neighborhood association that are more active and bringing us more together. And there's kind of that sense. I remember when I supported Obama, there was a neighbor who and I had a sign to ask that I put that sign down. That's how conservative, mind you, this person had the Confederate flag. It's my the Secretary of the association said, I can't do that. That's a private property. But my husband, after Obama was elected and future elections, doesn't want me to put signs out there, although I did recently, it doesn't, you know, because things have changed. This is interesting, because at the time the association was not active, so that guy didn't know me, right? Then he said, You're not the one picking up the beer cans. They would throw beer cans in our yard because they knew he was a Democrat. Now there are a few Democrats I've discussed since discovered and he doesn't have the Confederate flag up any longer. So I don't know whether it's because in one of the association meetings, he perhaps met me. So hey, she's not so bad. She's not this, you know, stereotype, but yeah, so to So, I guess I like living there. I met a lot of great people. My southern sister lives in lives like I call my Southern Sister. She lives like, one mile from where I live. Before that, we lived in the same old neighborhood, you know, of Mechanicsville, those like high point farms in Mechanicsville. And then, you know, we both, she moved first, and I ended up a mile away from her. It's just and she is one of my, like I said, she is a southern sister and a god, you know, I don't know what I would have done without her, because I have locked myself at the house, locked the keys inside the car with the car on. And, you know, they have, they helped me with my daughter, they helped me with my son, and I get so, you know, I didn't have family. And She she was that, and so, and she's a lifetime, she's a Republican, I mean, but she didn't vote for Trump. I don't care. But, you know, we, we get along very well,   And so that's what we have to do. We have to kind of like, somehow, close that gap, you know, build a bridge. We may not agree with everything, but come to some kind of common ground. And I'm hoping this is what this group can do, you know, focus on the issues that could bring us together, not divide us, 

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah yeah. So clearly, you're not a fan of how politicians are currently, kind of portraying immigration as well as the kind of general public 

 

Aida Pacheco  

There's no positive solution. Nobody's even both sides even 

 

Angela Bullock  

Yeah, what would you So, what would you like to what would you like them to know about Latinos?

 

Aida Pacheco  

One that we're very different. You know, meet us where we are. We are Puerto Ricans that come to the island and are citizens. We are hard working people. The majority of Latinos here in Virginia, I can say, maybe in the country, are here legally. We are not criminals. The majority of as a matter of fact, the safest place you would be would probably be in a neighborhood of illegal immigrants or undocumented folks. Unlike what's the narrative that's being portrayed or we, you know, delivered is that, you know, we're gang members and so forth. I do agree that we need to do something with border security. I think I we do. I do agree that we need to to target these gangs the cartels that bring people over and exploit them, just like we need to get deal with the gangs that are here as well that either work with it or that most drug trafficking are actually done by US citizens in those countries, okay, although they want you to thank the immigrants. So I so we are. We are very much still family focused. We are concerned with some of the main issues that the average person is with education, our kids, health care, jobs, many of them work two to three jobs, without benefits, but we contribute more into the system. So when you get to get receive Social Security, we need these people here. And so we do need a pathway to citizenship, but because there is not one and and so I want people know, to know who we truly are as a people you know we're when we come here, we are contributors. Many people that that are waiting for their papers and stuff like that. They contribute to their community. They're hard working, they love their families, and I want them to kind of know the true narrative of our people. Sadly, you know there have been asylum is not something that you get right away. When a friend of mine, who came from Columbia, was forced to come here because he was threatened, they would threaten him and his family to kill them, right? So he moved here, he got asylum like maybe three, four months or five months, right here. I mean, he now he's a citizen. He has two daughter daughters were brought here, but they're citizens. But now it's like 12 years or more, and between that time, they get exploited by lawyers. You know, they work so hard to pay money. I mean, these are people that, like anyone else, is coming here for a better life, and we need you. We are not overpopulated. Okay? They're not taking your jobs, and we, you know, they are taking jobs that people don't want, basically, and we need them. So I think people have to understand that, that that this is, you know, and they're not taking advantage of Medicaid and one like that. I mean, it's, they're it's illegal for them to get certain like Social Security. I don't know where they get this information. If they do, it's like the kids, children, like anything else, people find a way to get around the system. But it's not to the point where. You destroy people and destroy families by separating them. So what I would like them to know is that I want them to know that the true narrative of our people

 

Angela Bullock  

so as to get to focus it a little bit more on the personal. So what would you like the public to know from your life story, or like students, like like us, to take away from your story. I

 

Aida Pacheco  

think, Gosh, and I guess it's something that comes in time, is that believe a little bit more you know that you have more ability than you think, and don't let outside influence, tell you otherwise. And you know, you put a little bit of hard work. It's amazing you can do. And then when you come to obstacles, I take things one day at a time. I really do I have to to survive after losing a child, so I think embracing things one day at a time, and I went through, I had a learning disability. I still have that learning disability. And you could still do things. You could still and anyone you know, Martin Luther King, has a has a quote. You don't have to be have a PhD. You don't have to, you know, have all this money anyone can serve. So in any capacity, whatever capacity you as a student, there's so much that you could do, even with, you know, your current environment, like what you're doing now, this is a great, great project that you're and so I, I don't know that's that's a good question, because everybody's story is different, and they're a product of their circumstances and environment. I just tell people, you know, go with the flow and meet people where they are, and don't give up if there's something that you want to do. Just, just keep trucking, and if something happens, then you there's always another window. Just, try, yep, try, try, try, yeah, I'm on that that that. You know, a lot of the things that I've done, people would say, Oh, you that's just literally impossible, dude, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I'm gonna try it, yeah, but doesn't work. Doesn't work, but, and I go with that lens that not with the lens of how I'm gonna fail, you know, but lens is like, I'm gonna do this, and it's gonna happen. So I don't know if that's any, yeah, any any advice to you guys, but yeah,

 

Angela Bullock  

I feel like that's good. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

positive attitude makes a big difference. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's a thing I don't know, if you've watched White Lotus, but there was this thing about resolution. Did you watch White Lotus? Okay, the rest the Buddhist was saying something about resolution that we're always so agonizing about, always trying to find, solve something or and, you know, sometimes there isn't a resolution of something. Just live, and then you you don't live for the moment, because you're always thinking, so, live your life and don't compare to others. I think having a

 

Angela Bullock  

Yes, yeah, that's definitely, super important. So because the last question I have, is there anything you want to add that we may not have covered?

 

Aida Pacheco  

That's a good question, although, because, you know, well,

 

Angela Bullock  

yeah, it's yeah, that's definitely a hard question, because you've led a couple of lives. 

 

Aida Pacheco  

have, I think that that's what, you know, it's funny because people say, you know, I met so many people through so many different venues, you know, because of it. And I think that's fantastic. Because one of the things that that I feel I'm good at, and I really get, I don't know, a lot of energy from it. I love to connect people to people, because I feel like, you know, more can be done, you know, like, if they're looking to just something to do, or, you know, have have a ambition to do something. And I know somebody that has a similar experience, oh, you can meet so and so. I do like to make those connections. I love to network, and I think you can't do anything alone in isolation. You always have to work with people. So anyway, I don't know, I can't leave anything other than thank you for this opportunity, and I hope it works out really well. And if you need me to, there's so many like, I said, amazing people. Like, I feel kind of humble that I was even asked at the begging of this but I there's so many amazing people that I know that I hope you have them on the list that you know. I don't know if you're limited to a number, but I prefer that you have them on there, because they just like Estelle Strangers Esillia Barbosa, who's from Brazil and, well, she's actually also one that's been all over. You definitely want to hear their story, because everybody has a compelling story, but theirs is pretty, pretty fascinating. I

 

Angela Bullock  

Well, that is all the questions I have. So thank you so much. Thank you

 

Aida Pacheco  

so what are you going to do next after this? Huh? Have something to eat?

 

Angela Bullock  

 We both live in Chesterfield, so that's yeah, that's where you got me. Yeah. I think we all, we got a drive. Yeah.

 

Aida Pacheco  

Well, I think depending how my daughter feels, maybe she feels a bit better that I could take her shopping or something. But if not, we have to do it tomorrow.